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Westbrook vs Harden

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by heypartner, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    I guess I'm crazy, but I don't think Harden had as bad a first round series as most people think. He shot 6 percentage points below his average, which is pretty bad, but I felt most comfortable with the ball in his hands BY FAR over anyone else.

    It's easy to say that Houston wins the first two games if Harden shoots better, but it's even easier to say that Houston wins game 1 if Howard grabs a defensive rebound at the end of the game, Houston wins game 4 if Jeremy Lin doesn't dribble the ball around like a preschooler, and we win game 6 if Parsons doesn't play defense like a r****d.

    Many, many things went wrong for the Rockets, and it's silly to say that Harden was the sole reason we lost. He was the 2nd best player on the floor, and that's only because Dwight went bananas.

    As for Westbrook, he struggled just as much as Harden, if not more, in the first round. If the Grizzlies don't choke away a couple of games then Westbrook/Durant's first round suckage would far outweigh Harden's.
     
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  2. mrm32

    mrm32 Member

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    Well for one if he drops 19 points in the first half I don't want him to disappear in the second half.

    Secondly, how about backing up his statements of being the beat SF in the series or better yet keeping his mouth shut.

    Don't get me wrong Parsons is a good player but he doesn't impact the game enough to be the third featured guy on this team.
     
  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Did Harden play terribly the entire series?

    No, he did not. As was pointed out, the Thunder was saved by Reggie Jackson of all people.

    It is still a team sport, but it feels like people want to always place the blame when it is convenient.

    The series wasn't solely decided by Harden, he had good games in the series...and he had nothing to do with LMA putting up those Jordan numbers...or Jeremy Lin fumbling the ball away in game 4...or being asked to guard Lopez for 6 free easy Portland points in game 6...or not even all the ticky tacky fouls that LMA got for some reason.

    You need your stars true, but you need your role players too. That Rocket team was NOT stacked, and Parsons the supposed 3rd best option wasn't better than Batum at any point in that series really.
     
  4. aumate

    aumate Member

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    Grizzles defense versus Trailblazers?
     
  5. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Rep for that.

    It was a close series, any one thing could have changed the entire series..like Howard grabbing that rebound (which I forogt) or Lin of course just holding onto the ball.

    Then who knows? Maybe Harden tears the Spurs up again like he usually does and redeems himself. I really don't know.

    I do know the Rockets team is far from being stacked though.
     
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  6. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Grizzlies do have the 7th ranked defense, as opposed to the 16th ranked Portland defense, so fair point.

    But WB is the #2 perimeter option, and wasn't the sole focus on their defense anyway.
     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    You really don't know what a first option is if you don't think he played terrible.
     
  8. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    Yup, we don't really have a starting PG or PF. Our only solid bench player can see the floor maybe 14 min a night.

    Morey has his work cut out for him this offseason.
     
  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I didn't call him a first option did I though?

    I said did he play terribly every game of the post-season? Mfas was right, he WAS the 2nd best player on the Rockets. If Lin did not fumble that ball away he would have been the reason in the clutch they even won that game. If you remember he made clutch shots and plays in game 4, Rockets had it sewn up. If Lin just holds onto the ball the story on Harden is probably a lot different then what it is now.

    We act like because he had a bad game or two that just trashes him completely. Meanwhile guys like WB and Durant can have bad series and get excused for it all the same.

    I really don't care if he's the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I just know you need 3 REALLY good players to be a contending team in the NBA...either that or one of your guys has to be playing on a MVP level like Lebron or Hakeem did.

    Otherwise you need 3 REALLY good players. Rockets have 3. PArsons is a good role-player. That's bout it right now for him.
     
  10. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    You know Antoine Walker was the 3rd best player on a championship team right?

    The standards should be set higher for the first option, not the 3rd option.



    There's a reason Chris Bosh can suck for 4 games in a series, and then explodes and nobody cares for much. He's a freaking 3rd option.

    There's a reason Manu averaged 7 points and shot 28% v. Portland in the 2nd round and nobody cares. B/c he's a 3rd option.

    There's a reason we overlook DWill's inconsistency b/c he's a 3rd option. There's a reason we overlook Stephenson's erratic play b/c he's a 3rd option.

    They're the 3rd option. They're that for a reason. They're not the go-to guys. They're not expected to carry a team night in night out. They're not expected to dominate every game.

    Are we really saying Parsons should have done better? This is ridiculous.
     
  11. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Harden was 5th in MVP voting. The league/media thinks he's the first option on the Rockets. There's no ifs and buts he is the Rockets' #1 offensive weapon.

    Now if you don't think he can be that and he's not the team's best player, then maybe we're discussing different things.
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    We've gone on a really boring tangent here.
     
  13. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Meh...and DWIGHT did dominate every game.

    Harden caught on at the end of the series.

    THEY...as in both of them...Needed more help.

    You are saying every game for every series for the Thunder BOTH Westbrook AND Durant dominate?
     
  14. jvu

    jvu Member

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    Westbrick is a SG.

    He will switch positions and reggie jackson will start at the point next season.

    Perkins will also get cut.
     
  15. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

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    Are some people's homer goggles really that colored? It's not even about bashing our players, it's about identifying clear weaknesses so we can get better. Harden played like dog**** against one of the worst defenses in the playoffs and his defense isn't even worth bringing up. It's downright laughable at times. Remaining ignorant wont help.
     
  16. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    I'll Westbrook based on what i seen in the Playoffs. His athleticism and quickness is unbelievable. I think he's the MOST athletic NBA player IN THE WORLD!!! Yes, better than Durant and Lebron James. When he attack and rise up with his quickness...it's unbelievable...he's like nobody can stop him. Plus, he's a hustle guy and play pretty good defense...unlike that lazy Harden. I will say this..I'll give Harden a pass for not showing up in game #1 and #2 against the Blazers because I realize even great players choke in the Playoffs..i mean look at Chris Paul...he really screwed the Clippers up some of the Playoffs games and cost them the series and then you have Durant in today's game 6 against Spurs choking and almost lost it by fumbling the ball in crucial time....all by himself.
     
  17. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    When Westbrook is bad offensively, he often still brings it on defense and helps his team win, or at least have a shot at winning, that way. When Harden is less than stellar offensively, his defensive weakness often just compounds the issue.

    Not everyone can be the disruptive defender that Westbrook is, but your "star" still gotta be at least solid and execute the game plan to not be a drag because he has to be out there for many minutes. And when your scoring touch is off , you gotta find something else to do-- rebound, defend, cut to the basket, move the ball, hustle-- instead of just standing there not really participating.

    The Rockets managed to plenty of points efficiently vs. Portland even with Harden's spotty shooting. But they couldn't afford having a less than stellar Harden performance on offense coupled with his usual no effort dog crap defense.
     
  18. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    I'll take Westbrook based on what i seen in the Playoffs. His athleticism and quickness is unbelievable. I think he's the MOST athletic NBA player IN THE WORLD!!! Yes, better than Durant and Lebron James. When he attack and rise up with his quickness...it's unbelievable...he's like nobody can stop him. Plus, he's a hustle guy and play pretty good defense...unlike that lazy Harden. I will say this..I'll give Harden a pass for not showing up in game #1 and #2 against the Blazers because I realize even great players choke in the Playoffs..i mean look at Chris Paul...he really screwed the Clippers up some of the Playoffs games and cost them the series and then you have Durant in today's game 6 against Spurs choking and almost lost it by fumbling the ball in crucial time....all by himself.
     
  19. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I would not trade Harden for Westbrook.

    Period.

    Dwight would hate it.
     
  20. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I actually agree...but the thing is that is the offense...

    Whoever has the ball, the other 4 players just watch. As far as moving the ball and rebounding...Harden seems to actually do all that pretty well when compared to other SGs

    Also the thing is, Harden had nothing to do with LMA first two games. Not sure what the game plan was there, but it didn't work.
     

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