Has Lebron surpassed Magic/Bird in your All Time Greatest List?

History is revisionist because Spike Lee punked your ass. No one likes to bring up that defeat because it was so brutal. MVPs are completely biased; I mean, Steve Nash won two. Everyone's always looking to pump up the next Great White Hype. Fight the Power!

 

I haven't checked these numbers myself, so I'm just trusting that they're right. But anyone who tries to use the weak conference argument against Lebron James needs to see the path Magic took the Finals throughout the 1980s (from the Heat/Pacers series thread):

 

Kareem
MJ
Hakeem
Lebron
Magic

I don't expect anyone to agree.

 

In 1986 maybe (I was 2, so I don't remember). But then Magic got even better, won several MVP awards and led his team to the Finals multiple times while Bird started breaking down. It's not necessarily revisionist history.

 

I'll give you Wade but Bosh is nowhere near the likes of a Bird or Isaiah.

 

That's not even remotely close.

Are you a BOF?

You clearly only like him because he's white and neglects his daughter.

 

I agree the East sucks but there is no team in the West 5-8 that would beat Miami in a series.

I'm placing Miami in the 1-3 spot if they actually played in the West, so by the WCF they play the Spurs or OKC which I still see them beating if they actually were in the West.

 

He would never beat Magic Johnson, the dudes slept with too many woman, entire towns, while Lebron has only had his high school girlfriend and now wife. Lebron has a long way to go to catch Magic Johnson.

 

I think he wins this year against either a motivated Spurs team, or MVP KD's OKC team, he passes them both for me.

As of now it's really close.

 

Also, Kobe Bryant has been pretty stellar with the number of women hes sleep with. So has Derek Jeter and the all time legendary Tiger Woods. So I think Lebron James needs to definitely come out stronger to make a mark in the league as the most epic player of all time.

 

Even though I grew up watching a lot of these games, one thing that always strikes me looking back again is how active and assertive superstars were back then compared to now.

Comparison discussions now always purport the level of modern conditioning and superior athleticism; could have fooled me. Watching tapes like these remind me how a superstar really affects and takes over the entire complexion of a game, PER be damned. It starts from mental determination and happens through insistent and spontaneous will-powered commitment. I don't think you really see that in today's "superstars", PER be damned twice.

(an aside: I think this is one quality Wade displays in big games that separates him)

 

He averaged 90%/ 50%/ 40% while scoring 29.9 points per game one year. The previous year he did the same while averaging 28.1

Let me know who has come remotely close to that.

I'm waiting.

EDIT: he actually did it 3 years in a row. The year before that he averaged 25.8 ppg.

 

Depends on his roster and coach...too many factors involve

 

Name some players who would've won in Cleveland with the same team.

 

... and no zone defenses... they were some good defenders in those days, but the best way I could describe LeBron is Charles Oakley/Anthony Mason size and strength with MJ's/Penny Hardaway's speed and agility. It would take an elite level defender at power forward/SF/guard...KG and Pippen level...those kind of players weren't roaming around in the 80s.

 

He is already in the company of Bird and Magic. When you start comparing elite players it never really works out or is fair. Too generational, so many contemporary fans never saw the "greats" play and naturally prefer current players. LeBron will be named among the greats, and they are all in a category of their own. To compare them is fun but futile.

 

He can't and nobody that criticize Lebron for leaving Cleveland can name one player who would win a title on that team.

 

its so hard to judge lebron... hes got the rings, but he already choked in 2 and a half nba finals, his team is always playing for a championship because its loaded and in the east... that sucks so hard.
I think Bird was a better player but lebron is a better athlete by far. All in all to me is :

bird --- magi --- lebron

 

He's definitely better than them. Lebron would have a lot more rings if he had the talent those Lakers and Celtics team had.

 

His team is always playing for a championship because his team always has Lebron James.