I disagree. What you suggest only would happen if only one has capspace and don't want to spend that cap. It's what happened with the Jefferies/T-Mac trade, as the Rockets were the only team willing to take on that extra year of salary as everyone else was clearing room for Lebron and company. But there are going to be numerous teams with capspace, and new CBA dictate all of them must spend 90% of that cap. The price to get rid of Lin will be dictated by the market. And even if what you say is true, that still doesn't matter because I'm sure signing Melo would more than make up for whatever cost it takes to get rid of Lin.
I don't think the Rockets will pay an exorbinately high cost to unload a young player on a 1 year contract (Lin). Sometimes those players are considered assets......not liabilities. Even Royce White only commanded a previously drafted 2nd round euro-stash (Aldemir). At most, I'd include one of the NYK 2nd round picks.
Buzzing in before Tinman...We traded Cassell and Horry after getting swept by the Sonics in the 1996 semis. They had won something like 16 straight against us with the Detlef-Payton-Kemp trio with Kemp always destorying us. Barkely helped us down the Sonics in the second round in 1997 before the Jazz beat us in the WCF.
That's what happens when you are so sure of yourself in a situation where you have zero control of the outcome and have zero knowledge of the team's internal discussions.
So....go ahead and name the packages from Boston, etc. What is Boston really willing to trade for Love WITHOUT Love committing to them? The reason I am emphasizing WITHOUT is because if Love is willing to commit to one team and none of the others then it won't matter what packages the other teams put together. They're not going to be able to put more on the table than the team Love wants to go to and commits to. So, in regards to Love not making a commitment............what are the best packages teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Kings, and whoever else is willing to put out there for him? You guys keep saying we won't be able to beat Boston's offer, etc. I'm telling you that's all conditional. If we are competing in a scenario with other teams without Love being willing to make a commitment there then tell what better packages they are going to be willing to put together for Love that will be soooo much better than what we are willing to give for him.
What are the precedents for this? A scorer abandoning offense just as/just before he enters the prime of his career? I could see you arguing Battier did this, but he seems to be the exception.
Parsons is not a scorer. Parsons is simply a player. He can score but his game is not defined by scoring. He can make plays but his game is not defined by being a playmaker. Parsons is a great 4th offensive option and just an okay 3rd offensive option. But defensively with less offensive responsibility, he can go back to exerting more energy and scrambling high and tight like he used to do when he was a rookie.
Nto that I don't think parsons is somewhat Morey's "ace in the hole"... but I nonetheless find it VERY hard to believe, inside sources or not, that if DM and Minnesota have a potential deal worked out for Love, but for teh fact that they want Parsons instead of some other assets, that Morey would say "No, Parsons is Untouchable." Parsons is not an untouchable player. He may be on ask 1, 2 or 3 ... or that may be the marching orders right now, that outsiders (who have insiders) are hearing little birds whisper... but when it comes down to it, you have the opportunity to get that 3rd superstar, and definitely are not certain about any of the other "potential" ways to do it... holding back for not wanting to trade Parsons is dumb at that point. I disagree. To a Minnesota especially, they probably prefer that #8. For one, they don't need Asik. But even with a 3 team trade... how do Parsons or Asik change their team for the better? They are still treading water. Asik is only signed for one more year. Parsons would be a great get. Solid, underpaid guy, who even on a fair contract is a solid solid player ... AND? The #8 pick, in this draft, COULD be more. It makes Minnesota really bad. Maybe not a goal, but without Love maybe it should be. then you're looking at #8 pick this year and theoretically that or better next year with their own pick. And next year's draft may also be really good and deep. More to the point, it is unclear exactly what Minnesota is thinking (they probably don't even know)... and it's hard to judge one offer against another. What Morey will have to do, simply, is try and figure out what they value in return (lotto picks, contributing players, cap space... obviously all of the above!) and put his cards all on the table if he wants Love. This is how we got Harden. "Wait, you're telling me there's a chance... well then here you go... here's a whole package for you." I STRONGLY suspect he is doing his best right now to obtain one of those available lotto picks, using Omer Asik as the primary piece of that trade... I still contend that Charlotte's #9 pick is the best option there. They are desperate to continue winning in the playoffs, Asik's defense game is a great fit and a decent pair to Jfeferson's offense game. Then with the goal of turning that lotto pick into something else. Parsons, Jones, lotto pick for Love type deal.
I understand your logic, I'm just wondering when - if ever - this has happened before. You say Parsons is not a scorer but is a player (no doubt there amirite), so OK. Has there ever been a player at or near Parsons age, who scores like Parsons has the last two seasons, that suddenly decided to neglect their offense in favor of defense? I'm just wondering if this has happened before and if so then how often. ::EDIT:: Post number 8,000!!!!!!
Do you really think at the end of the day there won't be a list of teams that Love's agent has "advised" he's willing to stay long-term? Even if not, and it's all a crapshoot, in the East, Boston could make a trade without Love's commitment, and make the playoffs next year - heck maybe even get homecourt advantage. Love gets a lot of crap for not leading his team to the playoffs. But Love plus a healthy Rondo, and some of the other players they wouldn't have to give up, IN THE EAST, can be more than halfway decent already. For a guy that has never made the playoffs, making it his first year, getting a taste of it, being the face of the Celtics, etc. I can see that as definitely a scenario that he resigns in, and the Celtics taking that risk. Not to mention the resign money being higher. This isn't Dwight having already been paid REALLY big once. KLove already missed out on that 5th year the first time.
Tell me how Parsons represents any value to Minnesota unless he agrees to an extension? And if you can't tell me how Parsons represents any value to Minnesota without agreeing to an extension then tell me how Minnesota is going to convince Parsons to extend and play there? Close....how about the pick, Jones, Lin's contract, DMo, #25, and a future first for Love?
You disagree with the thought that if other teams catch wind of Morey's plans to sign someone like Melo, and they know that this player has communicated his plans to sign in Houston, that they wouldn't leverage this back on Morey to maximize the trade assets they get for "renting" out their space? People like to refer to the Utah/GS trade last Summer to open up space to sign Iggy which I get. Asik and Lin are much better players than Biedrins and Jefferson. However I think there is still the massive stigma of the poison pill contract that created hurdles in the Asik trade scenarios last year, and will probably pop its ugly head out again. I think ultimately they can get a deal done to move each player, but my personal opinion is that it will cost more than say something like moving Royce White to Philly or T. Rob to Portland which I think is what people here are hoping for, or even some might be hoping Morey will actually GET assets for Lin & Asik which I highly doubt. I agree and I'm sure at the end of the day, Morey probably agrees too. Look at what Brooklyn gave up last Summer as a sort of worst case scenario for what you might have to give up to a team that has ultimate leverage against you. The Celtics essentially gave up their cap space, and future cap space for Gerald Wallace, Humphries, Bogans, Brooks, and in return got gifted some nice first rounders. I think conservatively your looking at having to give up at least one first rounder at the very least to get Lin & Asik off your books which IMO is worth it even though it will sting at the time. If Morey can get away with only giving up something like a 2nd rounder, or two 2nd rounders and/or maybe a young player that isn't Terrence Jones, I think in the end you end up being pretty happy with that type of deal to clear up the cap you need.
Are people suggesting that Parsons isn't going to go in a potential deal? LOL. The deal BEGINS with Parsons/Jones/Asik/2014 #1, and you'll probably need to throw more in there.
If the playoffs gave us one bright spot it's that Asik showed off his value. So he can likely be moved. But there are very precious few teams that would somehow pay $15,000,000 next season for the privilege of watching Jeremy Lin dribble into the paint, run into three tall dudes brandishing their hairy armpits, and toss the ball away ("eek!") as if he suddenly realized he was holding a turd. To get rid of Lin, Morey will have to include some of the $3.2 million allowed each season to grease trades. Maybe to some team looking to shed future salary commitment. Or to NY as part of a Carmelo Anthony deal. But when we start getting into Kevin Love territory? You gotta give to get.
Ah, you mistook my post, which I didn't make clear. I was implying that because the Rockets have cap room, they're not all-in for Love because they can go after other players. Would Morey want Love over Aldridge? Sure. But what about Love vs. Aldridge+Parsons? Then the answer is no longer that simple. Because the Rockets can sign a max player without trading Parsons, they're not as desperate as say the Warriors, who needs to trade for any star player regardless of whether that's Love or Rondo or Melo or whoever. In this sense the Rockets can be more patient. Also for this reason, I actually believe the Rockets WON'T get Love, since they won't be as all-in on the plan as I believe some other teams.
I simply believe in the free market system, and one that assumes that the value of something is determined by the market. In the case of a monopoly, the market behaves the way you claim. But I don't believe that this offseason, the product of cap space is a monopoly due to multiple teams having this product. If a team decides he's unwilling to take on Lin's contract for anything less than a King's ransom, another team may undercut that by placing a slightly lesser bid. And so on.
Fair enough, and I sure hope your right. -Philly -Milwaukee -Phoenix (already have a ton of picks though) -Orlando -Utah -Atlanta -Detroit -Charlotte -Dallas -Lakers All look to be teams that have cap space that could potentially all drive the price down for Morey if their is an open bid to get the assets that Morey is willing to part with in order to move Lin. Realistically, if the free agent market dries up quick, who knows.... it only takes two teams to get desperate for a PG or backup scoring guard to say hell.... we will take him if you give us a 2nd rounder and cash. I personally think the best deal for Morey would be to try and arrange separate deals for Asik & Lin, and preferably move Asik first. Who knows, you might be able to get a small asset for Asik in a draft night trade that can be used to flip in a Lin deal that minimizes what you are giving up to create cap space. Its very optimistic, but I'm not ruling it out. Just trying to look at it in a very conservative method.
