lol @ these old members of "rockets fan" getting trolled by RoxOn RoxOff. seriously, if you can't even give credit to Lin for this win and the way he contributed last night, there would be nothing Lin can do to satisfy you. And the notion that there are too many annoying LOFs on this board is not true, they are pretty mild now. Haters on the other hand. Lin's defense is way underrated on this board and you can't do jack if your opponents run multiple PnR and your help defense wasn't there. Austin Rivers 20 points on 24 shots, let him chuck. Ricky Rubio 16 points on 16 shots, big fking deal. AB 13 points on 15 shots one one night and 24 points on 24 shots the other. THAT, my friends, are good D.
I'm sorry, but that's a pointless stat. You might as well say Rivers is 5-16 when Harden/Jones/D-Mo is on the court. The only thing that matters is who was guarding the player in that particular possession. That's not to say Lin played poorly since I thought he played better compared to his last few weeks, just the fact that the stat is absolutely useless and out of context.
I'd imagine it's with the presumption that Lin was guarding Rivers, considering how the other side of the argument is saying the points Rivers got is due to Lin's poor defense (which was dumb since it was 20 pts on 24 shots...lol). So saying DMo/Jones on the court makes very little sense since they're obviously not guarding Rivers... I get what you're saying, but it's ironic that while you are complaining about lack of context in your post, you completely ignore the context of the same discussion lol.
Except I did take that into account because I watched replays. Lin was nowhere close to guarding 16 of Rivers' 24 shots. You are free to watch the replays yourself: http://on.nba.com/Rg4L8P Also, the word you are looking for is hypocritical (not ironic), and it's hilariously hypocritical of you to complain about my lack of context when you completely ignored the context and content of my post. I'm well aware of the fact that Lin did not guard Rivers on 16 of his possession, that's why it's pointless to say Rivers was 5-16 when Lin was on the court because the only thing that matters is who was guarding Rivers at the time. Pay attention to the context next time.
You're not looking far enough into what I meant by context. I have no idea if Lin was guarding Rivers on all the possessions or the bulk of them or not -- that wasn't my point. Read my post more carefully: I said "I'd imagine it's with the presumption that Lin was guarding Rivers" because the useless stat you quoted off Razsan was in RESPONSE to ZBoy's "Fact: Two of the more inept players on offense in the league were getting to wherever they wanted to go." obviously implying Rivers (one of the most inept players on offense in the league) was scoring at will because Lin was guarding them (as ZBoy's fact was stated after he complained of LOF whining). ZBoy's post is wrong in two ways: 1) Rivers scored 20 pts off 24 shots so that's hardly "getting to wherever [he] wanted to go"; and 2) exactly the point you raised -- more important is whether Lin was even guarding x player on y possessions. Razsan's post, while technically wrong, was in response to ZBoy's misguided comment in the first place. So where does your post come in? Well, you said to Razsan that the 5-16 is a pointless stat because who was guarding Rivers is more important. I agree, but all I said in my post to you flaming was that the PRESUMPTION Razsan made was based on the misleading comment ZBoy stated in the first place. So what I meant by context was getting to the crux of the argument; the start of it, and that's the whole thing being based on an incorrect premise. Your statement is not incorrect. Except for the bit about DMo/Jones. That's a weird comment. They're not going to guard the players Lin guards...like ever...so saying that for DMo/Jones is much worse and senseless. And before we get to the English lessons, I meant exactly what I said: it was ironic. I mean, it's also hypocritical, but I found it ironic as well (see above DMo/Jones comment). You said I didn't pay attention to context...but I am unsure what "context" I missed...
You are reaching. Person A says Lin was letting Rivers do whatever he wants on the court. Person B responds by saying Rivers was 5-16 when Lin was on the court. First, what person B says in no way disputes what Person A says even if Person A was wrong. For all we know, Rivers could be 5-5 when guarded by Lin and 3-18 when guarded by the rest of the team. Just because Lin was on the court doesn't mean he gets credit for defending Rivers on that possession, and that was my entire point. Second, the D-Mo/Jones comment makes sense. Jones guarded Rivers' shot attempts almost as many times as Lin guarded River's shot attempts, because Jones tends to be switched on to Rivers. So yes, if one is to say Rivers is 5-16 when Lin was on the court, you might as well say Rivers was 5-16 when Jones was on the court. Again, I thought Lin played very well. So please try to actually understand what is being said instead of what you think is being said.
Beverley was unable to guard Rivers without fouling. Lin proved able to get the job done in the 4th quarter against Rivers. The defensive problems are not at PG but at SG, SF and PF.
Lin made himself into a name brand with Linsanity and everybody on this board and every other board knows he can perform better. The hate comes when he doesn't. The end.
I'll summarize my original post more succinctly. I never disagreed with the premise of your post. It's a good one; one I agree with. The IRONY of it and the CONTEXT that was missed is that you were picking on the person defending Lin rather than the person (just as incorrectly) bashing him (and I won't go into your post history to prove a greater point). Both were wrong, but your post would suggest that the former is correct in his conclusion while the latter is simply misusing data. You don't see the bias (or irony) there? That's why I said you were ignoring the context of the "discussion." It's not your underlying logic that's at fault, and I don't think I ever questioned that, outside of the DMo/Jones comment, so there's no real reason to keep defending that because I don't disagree with it in the first place. Now as for the DMo/Jones comment, you're telling me...TJones and DMo guarded Rivers as much as Lin did last night? I mean, if that's what you're saying, then I'll have to tip my hat to you on that one. I also don't understand your need to always end your post with a snarky one-liner. That's really risky on online forums since you never know who you're speaking to on the other end (though to be fair, neither do I, amirite?).
Again, you don't read what is being said and instead what you think was said. I said "shot attempts", and yes Jones certainly guarded Rivers' shot attempts as much as Lin did. I don't know why I'm bothering at this stage, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I do like the threats you are throwing out though. You are right I don't know who you are, but what you also don't know is I'm an elite hacker working for NSA, Putin, KGB and Zeta. I'm the direct descendent of Sun Tzu and have trained with the league of shadows, having been consigliere to Don Corleone previously and personally killing Tony Montana. Step away from the keyboard a bit, you are getting way too sensitive over this.
Wait.. this has gone so far from where it started. I thought the consensus just after the game was that Lin's defense had sucked again, and that Austin Rivers had "gone off" on Lin. So some Lin supporter posted the stat that when Lin was on the floor, Austin was 5-16. (Not to say that Lin was brilliant defensively, just that Rivers had not "gone off" on Lin.) Now there are counter posts noting this doesn't mean Lin was guarding Rivers for all 16 of those shots. Really guys? This is what is worth discussing?
2013-14 Real Plus-Minus - Point Guards Beverley 3rd RPM 4.57 Lin 29th RPM 0.36 However, Patrick Beverley’s 32 or More Minutes Played Statistics Source: http://bit.ly/1gUDuxE 29 games with over 32 minutes played Overall Plus Minus = 109 Plus Minus Per Game = 3.76 Record 18-11 (62%) Jeremy Lin’s 32 or More Minutes Played Statistics Source: http://bit.ly/1ifBo00 25 games with over 32 minutes played Overall Plus Minus = 165 Plus Minus Per Game = 6.6 Record 18-7 (72%)
Frankly, I'm sick of his play. I gave him credit a fair amount of times this year and while he played well last night I have absolutely no faith in him. With his up and down play and clear confidence issues how could I as a Rockets fan not be concerned that he's going to meltdown in the Playoffs? There's my problem with Lin. If that makes me a "hater" in your eyes I don't care at all.
This metric was created Because this data is practically useless. Plus/Minus is a team statistic. It measures the performance of the team while a player is on the court. It doesn't account for the performance of teammates or who the opponent is. Dividing it up doesn't give you any more insight into how a given player played. As far as Real PM goes, Beverley's super high RPM is an example why you have to take all these advanced metrics with a grain of salt. There's no way he's as good as RPM says.
