exactly how i thought abt the poll. i chose the way if i was an owner and i'd rather have a player with a more consistent overall career. as great as barkley was over his peak, his last few years with the rockets were pretty bad and injury-riddled. partly because of his inability to take care of his body in a way i think dirk does better. hell we even had kevin willis playing better than barkley for quite some time. whats interesting was barkley played with dirk in europe when the latter was a young teenager and he said dirk was going to be a great player in the NBA and how he was going to change the game. i remember some NBA analysts picking dirk to win ROY because of barkley's comments, only to have dirk sucking his first year. the said analyst said that was the last time he will listen to barkley on analyzing players. of course dirk then went on to have his amazing carreer. personal note, when i used to play NBA live back in the 90s early 2000s, in franchise mode or whatever, I would always draft dirk and peja and stick them in SF and SG. my center and PF would be good defenders/rebounders and PG would be a 3point shooter like baron davis or steve francis. a definite bench player would be morris peterson (3s). I'd just have baron or steve break the defense, pass to the open 3 and rebound if I missed. good times.
I'm just coming into this thread to say that Larry Bird is the greatest shooter of all time, and he is the 2nd best passer of all time, next to Magic. Anyone who disagrees with me is simply disagreeing with me. Bird is best basketball shooter of all time. And all the less than 6'9 kids in the world who think they can pass ( like Isiah and Stockton), don't quite understand the advantage that Bird and Magic had over the playing field when it came to passing. It's like a 5'11 Quarterback in football, thinking he can pass as well as a 6'9 quarterback. Magic and Bird are Top 5 both, forever.
Bird was also a legit 6'9 barefoot. So, he we would be considered 6'10 or 6'11 in today's NBA. I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with Barkley vs. Dirk, but I'm with you on how great Magic/Bird were.
Bird's already been surpassed by Ray Allen and Durant when it comes to shooting, and as far as overall career is concerned even Bill Simmons (one of the biggest Boston Celts homers) admitted on his podcast he'd rather have 12 years (and counting) of Dirk over 9 years of Bird. It's pretty crazy to think people in the past will always be better than those in the future, with the advances in knowledge, training and technology the average NBA player today will be considered an all star back in the day. Even greats like MJ and Bird and Magic will someday fall out of the top 5 as time goes on, just like previous "GOATS" like Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell.
Curry will become the best shooter of all time IMO. He's on the path. Bird in this era with the emphasis on 3 point shooting would be fascinating.
So ray allen have how many 50/40/90 seasons? thats whats i was thinking. Durant is on bird level, ray allen is not even close. And if bill simmons said that, he is ****ing r****ded. Bird is 10 times better player than dirk. He was the greatest bb mid of all time, only thing that keept him from being goat was his terrible athletic ability. If he could run at least faster than my grandma he would have been the best ever.
Barkley is a beast tbh, just can't believe I rooted for this guy back in 97. He's just a rockets hater these days. Screw him.
Barkley from 86-92 was better than Dirk ever was. 64.8 TS%, 59.5 eFG%, 25.5ppg, 11.9rpg, 4.0apg. He was basically a 6'6" Shaq.
Excellent point. Offense isn't just shooting. Bird is the better shooter, but no need to get carried away. Barkley was ridiculous. One of the biggest anomalies in league history.
Barkley had loaded teams compared to the Dirk team that won a title. Before you say that Barkley had to go against Jordan, remember that Dirk knocked off LBJ, Wade and Bosh in their prime. Who else did Dirk have when he did that? Dirk raised his game to take the title, unlike Barkley who often shriveled up when it got tough. Bob Horry shut him down in single coverage, for crying out loud. Imagine Dirk right now with Hakeem and Drexler or Pippen at the end of their careers, like Barkley had.
Charles is so underrated now. Prime Chuck was like Lebron/Jordan and Magic combined. Disgusting how dominant he was. It's too bad that he had Dream and Jordan in his way, arguable the two greatest players of all time.
Barkley was on the downside of his career by the time he got to Phoenix. His supporting casts in Philly were ass after they traded Moses (i.e., during Chuck's prime).
Offense isn't just shooting. Dirk's off ball impact matches what Barkley does as a playmaker IMO. Especially in high value games.
Uh, Dirk went to the line more than Hayes - 6.2 vs 5.8 for their careers. Even assuming some differences between eras and pace, going to the free throw line 5.8 times a game for a big man is not "a great deal". And let's not discuss Hayes's inefficiency as well as the fact that he was a chemistry-eating coach killer while Dirk is completely opposite.
I'll give you an example of why I think you are wrong in regards to your disrespect to previous era in the NBA. Australian Basketball. I know a few posters here from Australia can vouch for this, but I know their golden era of basketball was by FAAAAAR the late 80's to late 90s. This was in regards to all aspect of Australian basketball such as participation, spectators, tv audience and talent (with legendary Australian Basketball players such as Andrew Gaze, Shane Heal, Bradtke, McKinnon etc..) all played in this time. These guys were household names and some games were showed in prime time. In 1996, these group of players played the Dream Team III (without Jordan, Magic & Bird). The Australian group got totally dominated by over 40pts and thats with Shane Heal going nuts on the 3pt line. In 2012 Olympics, Australia played the 2012 USA team and yes Australia also got dominated at the end, but there was several moments in the game where Australia actually got close. BTW, this 1996 Australian group would totally dominate the Australian team that played in the 2012 London Olympics. You would struggle to get 1 out of a 100 Australians that can name a player that played in the 2012 Olympics for there team. Also Australian Basketball was ranked in the top 5 (I think) back in the 90s, while today it is struggling to be in the top 10. Basically, today's Australian Basketball league is non existent and struggling to stay afloat (i.e. there were 16 teams in the 90s while only 8 teams today). If NBA players have gotten soo much better these days, wouldn't you have expected the 2012 USA team to dominate the Australian team a lot more? Why are there more Australian players able to knock on the NBA door now than in the 90's? Has Australia produced better players miraculously able to produce better players now than the 90s?
He had the guy who came in 3rd in DPoY voting and would go on to win it the next season. Dirk definitely benefited from the fact that he had a great interior defender to anchor the defense and cover for his (and his teammates') mistakes.
Barkley was 29 and won the MVP his first year in Phoenix. After that year, he definitely started his downward slide (although he was still an excellent player until the end).
