And I do apologize for my typos^^^.. Just got back from running and my stomach hurts... Did not double check my work ... I know some people like perfect grammar and spelling...
So what you're saying is, you don't really know how to value bev since he is neither a perimeter creator or a star post player? Because if he were either of those, you could use stats to quantify his importance. But now since you have to use the "eye test" or the intangibles metric, it's murky at best what his contributions are.
You are just babbling random crap to move your non-existent point. You are now even saying having a high energy defensive PG is somehow trivial to team success in the playoffs by citing your supposed college coach's words wtf? I don't know exactly know what your point is in the last paragraph because it makes no sense. Are you saying because the last couple of championship teams didn't have a defensive pg Beverley is no longer important. And How is Lebron now a superstar big man, along with Bosh???? Chandler? wtf is this you are trying to prove. And who said we are relying on Beverley to do anything. Beverley is a role player just like Jeremy Lin is a role player, just like Shane Battier is a role player. They have roles that are specifically beneficial to the team like pesky defense, or off the bench creation of offense, they aren't gonna win you championships per se, but they can simply contribute greatly.
nobody sane think Bev is anything but a role player let alone a superstar. He's unique to the Rockets because the Rockets specifically have defensive lapses that needs a high energy and highly disruptive defender like Beverley. Just because big men are keys to defense doesn't make perimeter defenders useless. It's good to get into the opponent's head espcially in the playoffs, and Beverley does just that, just ask anyone that he guarded. Plus we are facing a especially pg dominant set of playoff teams like Portland's Llilard, westbrook, Curry, CP, Parker etc. If Beverley can disrupt them as much as he can, he will make a huge difference.
So you have made it your goal to justify his poor play? CF is a website for Rockets fans and we have expectations for our TEAM.... We support our players but many have walked Lin's path .... Pippen, Cato, Ariza and even Mcgrady have gotten bashed because of a certain something they did.... We don't critique players because of a race or a name. I wish Lin was doing great for The Rockets..... I also love his faith and fire for God but basketball wise I cant side with him..... We need more from him... A lot more. That's one of the reasons he pisses me off so much. Because if he was half the player he was in New York The Rockets would have had a legit chance this year at the finals... Yes I believe that if Lin would have been what we expected and not even linsanity but just simply a solid productive point guard we would be soo much better...
Are you *****ing blind? The poster before you (goyao11) gave a very reasoned and articulate response. You could learn a thing or two from him. It's not my fault your reading comprehension is crap. Don't you ever reply to one of the most intelligent posters on CF with this garbage again.
I would suggest that Beverley's importance to the Rockets is more a reflection of deficiencies in Harden's defense and to some extent team defense than anything else. No other guard on the team has a good enough defensive game to hide those two things.
I'm surprised you can even type with Jeremy Lin's nuts so far down your throat please save us from your intelligent responses, it kills off brain cells
If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore. Just remember, you came out of nowhere with an A-hole post.
The point he is trying to prove, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that defensive point guards (with limited offense) are not essential or even highly correlated to Finals success. There are issues with such an analysis as with any analysis we can make on these boards. Namely - just because teams don't have such a point guard doesn't mean they cant be impactful. My central issue with playing Beverley huge minutes is that he is not a great 2 way player, and his defense is primarily on PGs. In the playoffs, teams will pick apart your weaknesses, and if Beverley can't produce offense, then teams will stack the paint or crowd Harden, killing any offensive flow. Traditionally, while there have always been strong attacking point guards, few teams have invested in "point guard stoppers" such as Avery Bradley or Pat Beverley. Typically you'll find wing stoppers on every team, but none to stop the ballhandler. I suspect it is because stopping a point guard is incredibly hard and almost a waste of resources (investing one of three wing spots into purely stopping the smallest guy on the floor). Furthermore, the effect of big men on PGs are greater than big men on big wings, so you don't necessarily need perimeter stoppers for PGs. All just speculation, btw. Finally, I challenge the fact that Beverley versus (insert playoff point guard here) will get you a net positive higher than Lin versus that same player. Lin is weaker than Beverley on defense, but not by enough to justify the difference on offense. In other words, I'm skeptical that Beverley can shut down Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Parker enough over the course of 7 games and score on them as well at a rate greater than Lin can. Remember, Lin's horrible defense is largely a myth - he gets beat by the guys above, but no more so than any other point guard. Beyond that, we have to look at "intangibles," an area of psuedoscience that is so murky that we'll have to agree to disagree. Are Beverley's steals and rebounds and "pitbull attitude" more important than the offensive continuity and tempo setting of Lin? Who knows.
If we are directly comparing the two,, then we must talk about it in the context of the team. I believed and still do, that Lin is a vastly superior scorer. He has the ability to break his man down with this quick first step and Beverley does not. To that end, neither does anyone else not named Harden. When we are talking about ROCKETS PG, we are talking about someone who can play off the ball as a guard and is able to defend the best opposing guard due to Harden's offensive defense (pun intended). This means our PG in the Houston Rockets starting lineup needs to defend very well and get open to make threes when Harden dumps the ball their way. Beverley does this a tad better than Lin, hence Morey saying there was very little drop off going from Lin to Beverley on offense. Another thing is, Beverley understands and plays his role on the team perfectly. Beverley excels in his role. He makes opposing players work hard for their points. He may not be able to shut them down consistently, if at all, but he makes them work for every point they score. If they do, it is because they beat him and earned it. He is very aggressive about this and it undeniably sets a tone for the rest of the team. I don't care what stats Lin fans try to come up with to show that Lin is a comparable defender, because he just isn't and the vast majority (meaning everyone not a Lin fan) would come to the same conclusion if they watched the 2 in as many games as us Rockets fans have. The other thing is that Beverley does not do dumb things with the ball on the offensive end. There is none of that running around like a headless chicken, jump passing, toe on the line nonsense from Beverley. He is not the same playmaker, but at the same times, he doesn't make those juvenile mistakes either. He TAKES CARE of the ball. Lastly, there is his personality which is one of balls and hustle. Beverley is one of our cheapest players and plays the hardest ALL THE TIME. He does not take plays off, much less games. He shoots the shots that he needs to shoot instead of pump faking and trying to drive (looking at you here Parsons) or drive into heavy traffic. Fans of the team appreciate players like this. The thing is, for a starting PG on our team, we do not need or want a Jeremy Lin. We have James Harden who makes Lin redundant and basically into an off the ball guard. This is not Lin's skillset. What all of us HOPED for when Lin went to the bench, was to come off and spell Harden as the primary ball handler. There are 2 immediate problems though; lack of knowing when to turn on the aggression and lack of balls to exert dominance to put a stake in his role. My first issue with Lin is most of the time, he looks lost out there. He doesn't know when to be aggressive and when to dial it down. He yo-yo's a lot being playing too recklessly (running around like a headless chicken before throwing up a jump pass) and playing meekly like someone made off with his manhood. I assert that when Harden is on the bench, Lin needs to make the team his. This is the only way I can see the 6th man role working out for the Rockets and Lin.
There are no good defensive metrics for a variety of reasons. Lin is one of the worst defenders on the team. They literally hide him when they can.
When I have my next client meeting, I'm gonna tell him, your portfolio returns are fantastic because they JUST ARE...there are no metrics for performance measurement except for my eye test. Microsoft and Apple are literally some of the worst stocks in your portfolio, I try to hide these from you in our quarterly reports as often as I can.
But for Lin to be at least half the player he was in NY, don't we need him to be the #1 option on the team and have consistent minutes (at least 30)? It's kind of hard to play consistently when you keep getting yanked in and out when playing and moving from one position to another. I'm sure many would agree that playing consistent minutes and sitting on the bench for so long can affect the way you play. Even Harden stated this in one of his interviews.
