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The Texans #1 Draft Pick Thread (2.0)

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by J.R., Apr 3, 2014.

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What should the Texans do with the #1 Pick?

Poll closed May 1, 2014.

  1. Anthony Barr

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. Blake Bortles

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%

  3. Teddy Bridgewater

    29 vote(s)
    9.4%

  4. Jadeveon Clowney

    175 vote(s)
    56.8%

  5. Khalil Mack

    6 vote(s)
    1.9%

  6. Johnny Manziel

    82 vote(s)
    26.6%

  7. Jake Matthews

    5 vote(s)
    1.6%

  8. Greg Robinson

    3 vote(s)
    1.0%

  9. Sammy Watkins

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  10. Undecided

    7 vote(s)
    2.3%
Page 9 of 44
  1. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="http://t.co/kV7xY38KBU">pic.twitter.com/kV7xY38KBU</a> RT <a href="https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff">@JohnMiddlekauff</a> not too much hype on him at least <a href="https://twitter.com/Rotoworld_Draft">@Rotoworld_Draft</a>: Kiper: Only Clowney can prevent Hall of Fame</p>&mdash; Justis Mosqueda (@JuMosq) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuMosq/statuses/452960405489344513">April 7, 2014</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
    #161 J.R., Apr 6, 2014
  2. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    I said it before, but I was surprised how often teams were able to seal off Clowney with just a single pulling TE, H Back, or FB in the run game when they ran right at him. It was especially noticeable against Wisconsin and North Carolina.

    If I'd never heard of the guy before, it wouldn't be a big deal, but the hype machine makes him out to be much more than he is. Some of his deficiencies, like developing a full range of pass moves, can be worked on, but not all of it. He weighs 265 lbs and he's not going to add weight without a quickness trade off.
     
    #162 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  3. ivenovember

    ivenovember Member

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    I understand what you are saying and have seen it on certain plays as well. But why are so many NFL draft/scouts raving about him so much. They obviously have seen his game and workout tape at least.
     
    #163 ivenovember, Apr 6, 2014
  4. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    ......
     
    #164 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Not saying he's bad by any stretch. He does some things that are amazing. But he doesn't do everything amazingly. The way people talk and write about him, it's like he poops gold bricks. If you haven't watched him play a ton, you should probably temper expectation based on what you read about him. He is, in fact, human.

    I'm reasonably confident that, if the Texans draft Clowney, JJ Watt will still clearly be best defensive player by far for the next few years.
     
    #165 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
  6. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

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    That's kind of a hollow criticism since Watt seems set to be the best defensive player in the NFL for the next 7-8 years or so.

    (And already has been for 2 years prior)
     
    #166 DonnyMost, Apr 6, 2014
  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    People call him a "generational" prospect. Presumably that means he can, best case if everything works out, be the best player of the current generation. JJ Watt is of this generation.

    Therefore, saying he is a generational talent means he could, best case, turn out to be better than JJ Watt - that he has the talent to be better than JJ Watt. He doesn't, even if the stars align.
     
    #167 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yeah North Carolina did great against him, the successfully blocked him 7 or 8 times all game long....of course since that is considered success, it just goes to show how amazing a player he is.

    As to the Wisconsin game, Clowney took that game over late almost single handedly securing the win for SC. As you could see here
     
    #168 Bobbythegreat, Apr 6, 2014
  9. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    John McClain Mock Draft 2.0

     
    #169 J.R., Apr 6, 2014
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    No, that's not what "prospect" means. He is the best PROSPECT of a generation, that doesn't mean best player of a generation. Andrew Luck was the best QB prospect of a generation, but it's yet to be seen if he'll ever be the best QB in a generation.

    However, put him on a line with JJ Watt and he could absolutely put up better stats than Watt because they won't be able to double him and they certainly aren't going to play Watt one on one all game long.
     
    #170 Bobbythegreat, Apr 6, 2014
  11. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    The word prospect is defined by what it it will turn into - what his prospects will be as a player in the NFL.

    Without reference to the player he could become, the word has no meaning.

    And, yes, Andrew Luck could be the best QB of this generation of NFL players if all the cards fall right. The word "prospect" is inherently about what could be, not what is.
     
    #171 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    ....okay but he easily could become a better player than JJ Watt, but even if he doesn't, that wouldn't change the fact that he's a generational prospect. He has the potential to be one of the best pass rushers to ever play the game.....which is why he's regarded as a "generational prospect" by those who know what they are talking about.
     
    #172 Bobbythegreat, Apr 6, 2014
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Clowney has more physical talent than JJ Watt, will that mean that he'll become a better player? We don't know, but there's no reason that he couldn't.
     
    #173 Bobbythegreat, Apr 6, 2014
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Yeah... I'll just disagree for reasons already stated.
     
    #174 Ottomaton, Apr 6, 2014
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'm fine agreeing to disagree, but what reasons? You rolling with that lazy "bad motor" BS that has been disproved numerous times with film or the laughable "3 sacks" trope? I'm honestly curious to hear your reasoning.
     
    #175 Bobbythegreat, Apr 6, 2014
  16. MrVengeance

    MrVengeance Member

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    I don't think he ever said he has bad motor, but he does not have lot of moves they are mostly play of his athleticism. Which I agree with him he is still raw and has way to go. Once he does get more polished moves and mix that with him athleticism he can be a very scary player.
     
    #176 MrVengeance, Apr 7, 2014
  17. Raven

    Raven Member

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    #177 Raven, Apr 7, 2014
  18. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Mike Mayock:

    General thoughts on Clowney and his workout?

    I expected a great workout and thought he exceeded it. He's in great shape. You could see his rare skills when he ran around hoops picking up tennis balls. He laughed his way through it.

    No doubt that's what the Texans should do?

    I said best talent; will he take advantage of it? Texans have to do what's best for the franchise. If I didn't fall in love with a QB, face of the franchise for 10 years, will anyone come up and allow me to get multiple picks? If I can't get value and I gotta put a card in, yeah, I think it's Clowney.

    DC Romeo Crennel, I think if you draft Clowney, you have to take that talent along with Watt and figure out how do we make it the best in the NFL? I think Clowney can move inside and stand up. Limitations are what the DC puts on him, not himself.

    If you're playing a team throwing the ball 40 times, Clowney is rushing 37 of them.


    Phil Simms

    Do I think Teddy Bridgewater's Pro Day is red flag? Absolutely, yes, a big red flag. If you're fair and willing to go back and watch, I saw a lot of things in game I saw at his Pro Day. You have to be alarmed by it. Now go back and judge it again or see if you over-judged. A lot of things to look into. Pro days are important for the QBs.

    Bridgewater's year?

    He had a good year but I want to know what he does translates to the NFL. I want to judge him (alone). Tom Savage from Pittsburgh, my gosh, the guy was like playing for a NFL team that couldn't protect. Every time he threw he got hit. He didn't have great WRs. Bridgewater, do I think he's a top ten player? I'm not against these kids but absolutely not, not a top ten guy in my eyes. I'm interested to see what happens in the NFL. I know the buzz on him overall in the NFL is nothing like the media has portrayed through the college year or leading up to his pro day.

    Manziel, Bortles, Carr, do any QBs merit being picked in the top ten?

    Probably not, no. I would say no but that doesn't mean they won't be. I see all these projections. I won't talk about QBs next year if 3 of the top 4 picks are QB. No way that can happen even though "Oh, it's about the QB!" If everything goes well and they project and they get the right guys around them, will they be as good as Matt Schaub? It was a solid NFL career. The answer is probably...I don't know. You gotta be careful. We all overjudge QBs. Why? It's new! We need a new face of the franchise! How'd that work out for Jacksonville or Minnesota (or Tennessee)? You gotta be careful reaching for these guys and thinking you'll make it work. They better have an abundance of talent to get it done. It's truly endless. ... Then it becomes a full retreat for the teams when it doesn't work out. We need to get him more talent, gotta do this, gotta do that, gotta work on this, gotta work on that. If you're drafting him that high, you shouldn't be fixing a whole lot. They should be ready to go.

    ...

    Top four guys--I feel confident they all won't go in the first round.

    Garroppolo: I don't see any difference between him, Carr, and Bridgewater. ... The difference between top group and next group isn't that big.

    ...

    If you're overweight, you got huge mark against you right away.

    Throwing - the NFL is about throwing. I want a knockdown thrower. I want a guy that can make all the throws so the game plan can include whatever you want.

    One guy going day three who is underrated?

    Underrated, I dont know. Tom Savage, I have some knocks against him--242 lbs during the year, why? but he has caught my eye. He can go anywhere from the 4th round to not being drafted. Logan Thomas another one that jumps out there. His good throws are big, big time NFL throws. Problem is, he'll throw a grounder here and there. If one coach can teach him fundamental wise, you could have a huge steal in the draft. Jeff Matthews(Cornell) can throw the ball down field with ease. He'll fit quite a few teams. ... QBs slow down physically faster than anyone in the league. Each year you see the 4.5 guys turn into 4.6/4.7. All the sudden he doesn't run anymore because he's 4.8/4.9, which puts him in the pact with a lot of guys. Kaepernick was slower than the year before. Manziel, will he still be fast enough where that's part of his game in three years? I have to see it to believe it.

    If I had to guess, I'd say Blake Bortles will be the first QB drafted. I don't know when. There's less to worry about than the other guys. That makes him a safer pick and down the line, he'll always be big and strong and that always plays well in the NFL. Roethlisberger is not a bad comparison but he doesn't throw as well. He throws the ball better in person but hasn't learned to play the position. He needed one more year in college and would've been higher thought of coming out.
     
    #178 J.R., Apr 7, 2014
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I wasn't saying he did say that he had a bad motor, I was just asking what areas he was criticizing Clowney.

    As to being somewhat raw, he's not raw like a guy like Barr, but he does only have probably 2 really solid pass rush moves in a bull rush and a swim, but no prospect comes in with all that much polish.
     
    #179 Bobbythegreat, Apr 7, 2014
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Wow. Mayock dropping knowledge.

    Basically said that Bridgewater was totally overhyped in the media. We have that to thank for the development of the "Bridgewater or you're an idiot" crew that's developed around here over the last few months. That's what created all the bias in a number of posters here.
     
    #180 bigtexxx, Apr 7, 2014
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