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Ukraine Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    What exactly is your point? That since we annexed Hawaii ~115 years ago, it's ok? In 115 years, can't Russia make the same argument about Crimea?
     
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Again.... when you get indoor plumbing we will let you speak at the big boy table, until then, worry about plumbing and feeding your people. Leave conquests and annexation to the adults.
     
  3. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    It makes sense that Americans care about conquests more than feeding their people.
     
  4. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    So in other words US invade other countries for "defensive purposes".
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    :rolleyes:

    Ohh noooo!

    Look here, I love the logic of "yeah ****ty county X is doing something terrible buuuuut America cannot say anything because they did Y (which is not in anyway related)."

    When your country has indoor plumbing and basic sanitation we can have a discussion. Until then, know your role and abuse your citizens and make trinkets to amuse wealthy Americans. We need more charm bracelets.
     
  6. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    I didnt say US cant say anything or do anything, they should do whatever that benefit themselves the most. Its just some people still seem to think they are doing things for justice, freedom or whatever.

    I do agree US is ruled by the rich.
     
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  7. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    It's amazing how mainstream primitive exceptionalism is in the US and how so few seem self-critical enough to see their own hypocrisy.

    Even in the case of Putin, I don't think he believes in any kind of exceptionalism, he just understands it's a useful tool to give him political capital.
     
  8. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Except that isn't what he's saying. If that were his point, why would anyone care about what Angela Merkel has to say about anything, ever?

    And when the United States can provide basic health care as efficiently and affordably as Mexico, maybe it can be taken seriously when talking to other nations about justice and human rights.

    That the world's largest economy has an interest in the affairs of the world is not hard to believe, but until it is capable of being transparent about it's (understandable) self-interests and putting on the big boy pants of diplomacy, save the lofty speeches about freedom and heroism for Hollywood action movies and Sunday sermons, because it's otherwise an anachronistic joke.

    As stupid as the whole Crimean adventure is, Americans like Nook are not self-aware enough to realize it is they who are stuck in the past and still playing Cold War when everyone else has moved on, no differently than the Edwardians were still playing Victoria a generation too late.

    Mock foreigners at your peril, Nook. Your provincialism is showing.
     
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  9. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Russia possibly evaded US spying.

    Huh. I'm not sure how Russia managed to accomplish this, short of some idealistic idiot/traitor flying to their country with a treasure trove of US intelligence secrets.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I was talking about a poster.......


    Are you seriously comparing the QUALITY of healthcare in Mexico to the USA? Further, I have been a large support of healthcare reform in the USA... which passed, the quality of which is still in question.

    I have LIVED over seas, most recently in Ireland.....

    I am not a believer in "the cold war", but nice try. I do however believe that Russia has a strong desire to control former Soviet Union states..... silly me, basing that only on my lengthy dealings with Minsk.

    You do love jumping to conclusions though.... enjoy, just be aware that your head is firmly planted in your own ass.
     
  11. HamJam

    HamJam Member

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    First of all, great post by Deji above.

    2nd of all, in reference to Kojirou -- I am reminded of the Mark Twain quote "Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it". Sometimes someone has to be a "traitor" to their government in order to faithfully serve the people and country that the government controls.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    You are clueless..... a majority of people in the USA that follow politics are well aware that the USA, like everyone else has flaws and suffers from hypocrisy.... however if a poster wants to discuss said flaws, start a new thread, do not throw it into "Ukraine protests".
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Very few Americans that follow politics believe that the USA acts out of "justice, freedom or whatever"........
     
  14. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Tell that to the Russians about Vlasov sometime. I'm sure they'll appreciate such thoughts.
     
  15. HamJam

    HamJam Member

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    Not sure what you are saying there. Anyone who works with fascists is scum in my opinion (yeah, that was a dig at you -- sorry), so I certainly would not defend Vlasov (nor would I defend the terrible regime he betrayed).

    Betraying Stalin in the name of Hitler does not serve the Russian people.

    But betraying a government that violates the ideals it was founded on in order to inform the people represented by the government of their indiscretions is a far cry from betraying them in order to usher in some other tyranny.

    Now, if, as you say, Snowden gave special information to the Russians -- that would be something else. Perhaps he did - I don't know. But, as an American who does not identify with the government that controls this nation, I don't consider him being a "traitor" to that government as inherently bad.
     
  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Please expand on this point.... how far do you take this?
     
  18. HamJam

    HamJam Member

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    Within reason, all the way. There is no reason for senseless violence or futile aggression -- right now there is no popular movement in the country that resists the authority/ hegemony of the government to the extent that the government needs to use systematic force against the populous i.e. death squads like the U.S. has set up in South American and other countries.

    However, if a popular movement of self organization ever occurs, and the government is sufficiently threatened by it to use violence against it, I think the people so threatened should use violence to defend themselves. And, quite frankly, I think many of the founding fathers would agree with me.
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    As an "American that does not identify with the government that controls this country" do you support violent efforts to overthrow the US government?
     
  20. HamJam

    HamJam Member

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    No -- I support non-violent efforts to ignore the authority of the US government, and the use of violence to defend those non-violent efforts in the event (and only in the event) that the government tries to violently oppose said non-violent efforts.
     

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