Yes, it is in their DNA. And I never understood this at all either until I spent time working over there and then later married a Ukrainian who educated me on all of this. Also one of my best friends was in the Red army and he said this... Ukraine is the same way and that's the main reason you haven't seen any real fighting yet. Ukraine doesn't have a leader at the moment so they are just sitting around unsure of what to do. If Ukraine had a true, strong leader right now they would follow him anywhere straight into battle without question.
to the point of war all out where its them vs. whole world? You really think that is what the people of russia would want? Take over places? world domination in name of putin? I never said I was an ukraine or russia expert. reminder this is a texas basketball bbs. Also I'm not married to a ukranian gal. No need to attack my knowledge of russian politics or people mindset. I don't pretend to know and Im on a bbs asking. You can get off the high horse.
It's not about "what they want". Of course they don't want that but if their leader does want that they will follow him without question. (The majority of them). Not attacking... please don't take it that way.. Just saying you don't understand the mentality there (most people don't) and I'm trying to help convey it to you the best that I understand it.
I suddenly feel the need to point out something. Putin is not "Russia." He's an oligarch, a demagogue, a ruthless leader who doesn't hesitate to use his power to crush any dissenting media. Propaganda is rampant, particularly now. I'm always careful to try and separate "Russians" from the Putin gang that's behind these actions. The Russians I've met have always been good people. My significant other went over there for a few weeks a couple of years ago to show how our state government does certain things, and they couldn't have been nicer to her. Demonize Putin's government, they deserve it, but not the Russian people. In my humble opinion, of course.
There are very good people there - some very smart and intelligent creative people, but they will follow their leader and Putin happens to be the leader. Deckard: These are all good people: <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CeA6y2vFXgU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
seems a little suicidal. Surely propaganda and love cant be that strong for one guy when the dude never really even stands for anything. I mean what is he standing for?Its not like he is hitler on some pulpit throwing out a decent speech. guy is all about cash and getting paid I am not sure how joe six pack( or boris 2 liter of smirnoff) in russia is going to be down to die for that to no end. I mean they do have internet there right? What are they going to do when the see whole world is ready to fight them? cut off internet to their people, raise their fists to world and throw down? seems a little ridiculous. I think the world sentiment needs to head towards idea of getting rid of putin. time to iso putin.
The Chinese...follow suit with the Russians. So if they want war, China will remain quiet, yet assist. China's position on Crimea was evident when they decided to abstain from voting for Sanctions in the UN security council meeting. Russia somewhere along the line has the backing from China. If the US and the rest of the west bands together, the Russians and Chinese will do the same. India and Pakistan will most likely remain out of it unless they too decide to rekindle their old tensions with each other. Bottom line, Russia, Putin and its military doesnt give two $hits about what the US and her allies threaten to do. This move was a calculated decision, with cost/benefit analysis clearly indicating that Russian aggression will go unpunished. I for one do not want war, but it just takes one side to trigger a reaction, if Ukraine launches a full scale attack to reclaim Crimea, Russia will surely defend, and we may just be drawn into a war we tried to stay out of...
This is a very true statement. Several of my colleagues came to the states to earn residencies in programs here. Their views on Putin are much less favorable than what we see. Surely Putin is their leader, but not everyone agrees with his views. Russians are really cool folks, and it would be a complete mistake to think that everyone in that country fully backs Putin. You only are able to see what Putin wants you to see, as dissidents are silenced quite quickly.
so you think china would side with russia if it came to war? What would china have to gain? I dont see what that does. As for india and pakistan wouldnt they side with EU and USA as well? I mean what is the gain for either of them? and israel? motive?
No he's not all about cash and getting paid. He's all about restoring mother Russia to her glory years and if the propaganda continues the people will be ready to defend their country - if you haven't seen, all the TV propaganda is against the west. The people there believe that the USA was behind the Ukraine protests which ousted Yanukovych. And also if you haven't seen Russia has banned all outside news sources other than their own.
Because China still supports communism and if Russia goes down they fear they will be next. This is why they would possibly support Russia in a war. The two countries are friendly.
The majority do back him but that doesn't make them bad people. There are always exceptions, but those exceptions get silenced/squashed quickly as you said. There is no free speech there.
I think the US would stay out of it for as long as they possibly could. The surrounding countries would help Ukraine. And no fear of nukes, Putin would never nuke Ukraine. He needs that land and the fallout would be too close to home. So, just a traditional bloody European war.
So east berlin and up to former iron curtain too? Where does the line draw? I hear he is worth 70 billion. This crimea deal would bolster that. Surely he has a bunch of companies ready to pounce on next shipping and oil deals with this new port. He seems more about dough. He doesnt strike me as the relentless patriot hell bent on world domination like hitler or someone in that area. I mean has putin stated publicly that he wants to take over the world or stated restoring russia to its former glory? What does that mean?
IBTL - One last thing.... think about this. Based on your logic, the German people should have never supported Hitler. Yet they did, overwhelmingly.
russia goes down? presumably russia is the one trying to take over places here right? Unless china is in on taking over places I am not clear on what they have to gain. Even if US/UK/Ukraine fought russia and russia lost its not like we would go in and settle moscow and turn it into the 51st state.
The Russians didnt make this move without a consult from the Chinese and their banks. The Russians do understand that their currency is bound to tumble in open markets, and with sanctions levied by the US and European allies, the Russians you think would economically struggle. But their fearlessness of impunity, implies that they have strong support behind their actions. Im not an economist, but Im sure that the Chinese dont really care much for the US economy, considering that major US corporations are comfortably making their products in China! The Russians can provide the Chinese with arms, resources and tech, while the Chinese could provide financial capital. The Indians and Pakistani's may just remain out of the conflict. But to think that Pakistan would aid a country that ran a covert op to kill the world's greatest terrorist on their soil without their permission...who knows... The Indians may not care as much either; they have their own grievances with the US government, even things as petty as the prosecution of their diplomat. In the End, what we have learned is that the Russians thought their actions through, and the rest of the world is just twiddling their thumbs, hoping to reign in a nuclear superpower.
But Russia is not communist anymore. In fact, Putin (despite his history) and his supporters, are typically very anti-communist. And I don't mean that he is not communist in the sense that he is only using communist window dressing (like China), my understanding is he is explicitly and verbally anti-communist.
But what the Chinese can't get from Russia and what they depend on Europe and especially the US for is a consumption base. It does China no good to have their people slave away in deplorable working conditions if they can't export out that overproduction.
