Not going to clutter this thread with an old argument we had. But as a perimeter player today he does have it easier. That's not a knock on him, it's just a fact. Lebron is in my Mt Rushmore already because he has dominant numbers relative to his competition. Btw how often do teams employ zones in the game? 90%? 70% 50% Do teams even employ it 20% of the time?
I have untrained eye compared to yours. Can you show tell me how many % we played zone defense today?
So amazing. Wilt was sooooooo far ahead of his time. It's ridiculous. That size and that athleticism and fluidity. Holy crap.
It wasn't full zone, but it had zone schemes to double Lebron in the block/post with Dwight, Jones, or Dmo. There was a reason there were three defensive 3 second calls on Dwight. Basically, the whole time Lebron was in the game. Edit: it is called "soft double", for those wondering. Should of included that.
And the 80's and 90's didnt do that? You are allowed to sag off your man also prior to the zone rules which in effect double team the off the ball player. Once the ball handler has the ball, you can double, triple team that person
I should of specified low-post "doubling". I will edit it in. This is where Dwight sits in the paint, waiting for Lebron. It is called "soft doubling" and is something one could not do earlier. It is much more extensive than sagging off your man, but not a full double.
I'm a bit confused....that is illegal in today's NBA but not in 90's. I think your getting confused which era you were referring to
I haven't figured out if you're that clueless or your being very sarcastic. But in case you didn't know, these were the centers he played against his final year in the league when Chamberlain averaged around 18.5 rebounds a game. Milwaukee.... Kareem Abdul Jabbar Chicago ...... Tom Boerwinkle Detroit......... Bob Lanier Golden State.. Nate Thurmond Boston.... Dave Cowens New York..... Willis Reed Buffalo ... Bob McAdoo Baltimore .. Wes Unseld Atlanta.... Walt Bellamy Pretty impressive list. Probably the greatest group of Centers to ever play the game. Oh by the way none of them were rookies either. This was also in a 17 team league with those 10 centers playing against each other. Although I could be wrong I don't believe any of those guys were Jewish either.
He "has it easier" according to you, by playing against defenses that are more difficult to score against, also according to you. You basically should have just never brought this up. How often do teams employ defenses that would be deemed illegal in the 80's? If you look closely, it happens on pretty much every single halfcourt possession - you see guys guarding floor space rather than other players or caught in what would have been deemed "no man's land" back in the 80's or 90's - when you could clear space inside by dragging all of your players away from the rim, and the other team had to guard them (or double). So the answer is probably 90- 100% of some instance of what would formerly be "illegal defense" being played on a given possession
Like, the whole game, but actually. If you can't see it after the Heat game, I can't help you. Just watch Dwight.
18 rpg seems impressive (not even going to mention the laughable 50-25 numbers of the early 60's set in an NBDL quality still segregated league) - but once you adjust for pace & the lousy shooting back then, it seems distinctly less so. Wilt's 18 rpgs in his final season translates to about the same(~20) rebound % that Dwight Howard is putting up today, and is nowhere close to the all-time marks (Rodman owns that category) As for his competition, you're automatically disqualified for listing Walt Bellamy; a rookie mistake, but even worse (or better?), you listed the 1970's version of Walt Bellamy.
Don't take my word for it. Take the word from Stu Jackson (Executive Vice President at the time of the rule changes) NBA.com Q/A with Stu Jackson NBA.com: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004? SJ: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them. NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range? SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate. NBA.com: Doesn't the wide-open style benefit certain types of players? For example, wing players vs. frontcourt players? SJ: The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post. NBA.com: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently? SJ: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter. But to do that, they have attempted to place the right personnel on the floor -- more shooters and ball handlers that require defenses to play those players on the perimeter. Okay...now what does the stats say? From this article http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...exploits-of-michael-jordan-in-the-present-era From 1986 to 1998, the bulk of Jordan's career, there were 307 20-point seasons. Of those 307 seasons, 214 or 58.47 percent of them were perimeter players and 41.53 percent were interior players. By comparison, there have been 270 20-point seasons since the advent of the rules changes, and 205 of those have belonged to perimeter players, while only 65 have belonged to interior players. That translates to 24.07 percent interior players and 75.93 percent perimeter players. That's a 17 percent swing in favor of the perimeter players, which is a significant change. Furthermore, the average number of 20 point-game seasons by perimeter players has risen from 12.7 in the Jordan era to 17.1 per year since the rules have changed. That's a 34.6 percent rise in perimeter players who have 20-point seasons. 90 to 100%? Watch the game again. Now watch a full game from the 90's so you know what youre talking about. You really think you can find a man caught in no man's land in 9 out of 10 posessions in yesterday's game?
Yes. Furthermore - the offense has to deal with inability to exploit that loophole on every possession. Edit- I'm watching OKC- CHI right now, I'm literally seeing it on EVERY SINGLE halfcourt set that doesn't begin with a quick shot. Usually when somebody guarding a man at the perimeter begins cheating inside, without guarding a player. Watch Joakim Noah standing on the key while Serge Ibaka lines up at the 3 point line. That is 100% an illegal defense violation under the old system, and would have been called every time. The NBA is a great league - you should try watching it. I guess now would be a good time to explain that using raw PPG is the mark of a naif but who cares. No point here. I do like the "appeal from authority" citing the mastermind of the Vancouver grizz and the early 00s USA men's teams. Classic touch.
I'd even challenge some of the Wilt critics on what makes them think that Wilt would be weak against players who are far more flawed than he is or ever was, while also being inferior in regards to skill. What skill does Hibbert and Noah possess right now in 2014 NBA that is equal or better than Wilt's?
I don't know - I do know that if you maybe put a bunch of grainy highlight clips of them together and then showed them to aliens from another pplanet, you'd be hard pressed to get them to note a difference. I do know also that they're about a hundred times better than the chumps Wilt played against like Darrall Imhoff and that their teams are far better.
I'm not denying that there is zone or match up zones in todays game, but to suggest it's used in every half court or used in every possession is ridiculous. Don't confuse sagging off your man to zone defense. I know it's quite subjective to how far you can sag off before you're called for an illegal in the past (one of the reasons why they got rid of that rule cause teams started cheating it and was very complicated to determine)...but generally, if you didn't clearly follow your man (i.e. cutting etc..) then thats when you were called.
