Melo would work on this team if the NBA changed the rules to have 2 basketballs on the court at the same time. Dude is averaging 22 FGA per game and averages 20 for his career. The only time he's averaged below 19 attempts per game in the last 7 seasons was the year Linsanity happened and he got D'Antoni canned and Lin shipped out.
IF Melo decided to come here, I actually don't think it will be very hard to trade Lin/Asik to be able to sign him outright. Centers are hard to come by and I'm sure some team will happily take Asik if we are just giving him away and asking for nothing in return. We couldn't move him this year because we wanted something back. I'm sure a team would take 1 year of Lin if we included two #1 picks with him, especially if one is a 2014 pick.
Carmelo is exactly what this team needs. We need a pure shooter! Melo isn't a natural born leader, I don't think Harden or Howard is either. From that perspective it certainly can work.
People can pick on the double whammy of ISO ball, but having two guys who can create their own shots all night long sounds like a defensive nightmare to me. it's not like they don't know how to pass, Harden is an awesome playmaker and Melo not too far behind.
I don't get why people say this. James Harden leads our team in assists. He goes for double digit assists some nights. If Harden beat his man, and rotations caused Melo to be open, I'm sure James would pass him the ball just as quickly as he passes to Dwight or Chandler. If Melo were triple teamed on the block, I'm sure he would pass the ball to a cutting James Harden.
Melo would lose nothing by walking to Houston as long as he stays healthy for the next 3 seasons. They'd give him an opt out after 3 and he could re-up to age 36. And in actuality he'd be gaining. It's all about winning. He can come here and win rings or he could stay in New York with all those taxes and ridiculous cost of living and lose, lose games, lose endorsements, lose the chance to win rings. Like Dwight said....in case you missed that....the money is in the winning. I do not underestimate the difficulty of making trades of any kind for any player. Any trade is difficult to make and it usually takes a while to develop. We have been messing around with trying to trade Lin and Asik since we signed Dwight. If we trade them (we will trade Asik) then the trade will have most likely taken over a year to develop. To say Morey doesn't have leverage is a misnomer. Morey has leverage. But I've also been very clear about the challenge of moving Lin for no incoming salary as well. Lin's contract is the only one though that is a challenge to move...not Asik's. Asik would have already been traded if we hadn't been trying to leverage Lin's contract out with it. Philly will gladly take Asik off our hands for no incoming salary and several teams will gladly take Jones and DMo off our hands for no incoming salary. It's not a matter of being able to dump those guys. It's a matter of synergizing the right deal. The key question at hand is if Melo wanted to walk here could we make it happen by finding a home for Lin without taking back any incoming salary? That is the challenge. I happen to believe there are several things we could do to make that happen. I'm not at liberty right now to go into it. Waiting for confirmation on some facts. But until I know I'm wrong I'm going to continue to believe that we can make Lin's contract palatable for a trade. And if we can do that...it open up a whole universe of possibilities for our roster this coming off season.
Do people really have that much short term memory around here? Are we all trying to forget that just a few months ago the best offer Morey could get for Asik was Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee and their ridiculously bad contracts? To top that off Asik and Lin's play this season haven't necessarily been top notch. Asking any team to use up probably ALL of their 2014 salary cap space available for two under-performing players with poison pill contracts will come at a very steep price... I'm talking multiple draft picks for each player. I think people are REALLY underestimating how difficult it will be to move these two players for no salary in return this Summer. You are basically selling Lin or Asik to a team that has worked hard to clear cap space that THIS is your prized possession you are obtaining in free agency this year.... oh, and you oh each of them an extra 6.6 million off the books as well.... Enjoy! (Oh, and once its let known that Melo wants to come to Houston, EVERY GM in the League will know that Morey has zero leverage in a Lin/Asik trade negotiation. They will ask the moon of Morey in a trade because.... well they know Morey needs to acquire Melo at all costs... draft picks be damned)
Lol at ppl who don't Melo. He's one of the most gifted scorers right now and a top tier talent. i'd take him in a heartbeat.
What you are saying might be true if he's lucky enough to have his health at that age, but you have to realize that EVERYONE around him(business managers, agents, family, etc) will be explaining to him that this is a high risk move due to potentially having a health issue, or a blown knee... Also do not underestimate the fact that there will be a new CBA by that time that will probably cut back max salary earnings once again if history repeats itself (I think we are in for another lock-out unfortunately because the middle class is getting screwed in this latest deal). I personally would think that Melo is willing to risk losing the last year to make the move to Houston Yes. However what you are suggesting is that Melo not only risk the final year of his deal, but to also give up even less (like potentially 6 or 7 million a year less) in his first 3 years in Houston to sign with the remaining cap space the Rockets would have available assuming they could trade Lin & Asik for nothing in return. That's like a normal upper-middle class American taking a 10 to 20K hit on their yearly salary.... That's a big, big hit. Yes, he's already rich by all means, but that doesn't matter if you want to think logically, and put yourself in his and his agents/managers shoes. From the Rockets Cap POV: Lets say the Rockets are keeping: Howard, Harden, Jones, D-Mo, Garcia(has player option), Parsons, Bev, Canaan. That's 43.3 million right there alone. If you assume that the number you are throwing out there for next year is 62 million for the salary cap (which is very liberal considering how its moved up in the past), that leaves the Rockets with about 18.7 million before cap holds for 1st round picks, and empty roster charges which will bring you down a million or so. Yes, the Rockets can move everyone else on the roster not named Howard, and Harden, but they wont do that. They need other good players on the team and they aren't moving that many players on a whim that Melo MIGHT sign with Houston.... that's just not going to happen. What you are suggesting is just too freaking difficult, its way more convoluted and risk.... and lastly.... it sucks mostly for Melo... whose going to give away a ton of money on the front end, AND the back end to sign in Houston. A sign and trade with New York is the #1 option because it does everything suggested in one fail swoop, and it also gives Melo his full due, or close to it on the front end... while sacrificing the back end bird rights to win rings in Houston and be tied to a true big 3. You can argue about this until you are blue in the face, but anyone reading this needs to realize how assumptive BHollic is being here, and needs to realize how difficult business is amongst GM's to make these types of moves. You want Melo... you better hope Dolan & Phil Jackson want Lin, Asik & late first round picks more than the relief of just getting Melo's salary off the books to speed up the rebuilding process.
From the Knicks perspective, it actually makes a LOT of sense to take Asik + Lin. Lin is already very popular so it wouldn't hurt them excessively at the box office. And after a year of Raymond Felton, even Lin performing at a mediocre level would be looked at as a big plus. The Knicks are DEEP into the luxury tax, so Asik + Lin's back end deals would actually SAVE them money. Even though they're paying $15M in salary, the $6.7M difference in salary cap is MUCH less in terms of money out than the repeater tax penalty of 250% of Melo's guaranteed salary. Asik also makes Tyson Chandler redundant, so they're free to move Tyson Chandler's $14M salary off the books and get back picks/players in return. There's no shortage of teams that could use a player like Chandler (former DPOY, championship pedigree) and while Asik is a downgrade, he's not a HUGE downgrade, not to mention Asik is younger. Also, Asik and Lin both expire at the end of 2015, which is perfect timing in terms of when the Knicks' cap space comes free. So neither of them impair flexibility going forward. Finally, they'll have the bird rights for Asik and Lin, which means that they have the option of re-signing them at a more conventional contract should they choose to retain either of them. IF Melo doesn't want to return OR PJax doesn't want to keep Melo, Houston could offer them one of the best overall deals of any team. Asik + Lin + one of Parsons/Tjones + filler (Dmo/Canaan/etc) and picks is as good as the Knicks can realistically expect, especially with the possibility of Melo walking for nothing.
Agreed, but that is still being very assumptive as to the thinking and priorities of the Knicks if they are losing Melo. I say that because at the trade deadline I remember Isola or whatever his name is was on the radio saying that he believes the Knicks weren't even entertaining Melo offers at the deadline because actually they are valuing losing Melo's future salary next year more than anything they were hearing they could get back in a trade at the deadline for Melo. Also we do now have confirmation that Morey tried (probably with this same package) at the deadline to get Melo... if that offer didn't blow them away then we have to assume they weren't in love with it then as well and MIGHT not be in love with it in June. Now, a S&T is different than a Feb 2014 deadline trade for Melo I get that, but its still something to note. Its not a given that New York REALLY wants anything back if Melo leaves that doesn't help them tear down the shed faster. Also- Lets not forget the Phil Jackson factor. He's going to have alot of say so in roster moves to who knows what he will have planned. Maybe he loves Lin and thinks he's a good player to bring in.... maybe not. My guess is he probably still thinks Asik plays for the Bulls knowing Phil. So while I agree that a Lin/Asik S&T makes sense to us, lets try to not be assumptive about the Knicks priorities if they are losing Melo. -If I am being Assumptive I would think that taking back Lin & Asik has to do with what they could potentially line up, or think they could line up to move in a package or separate moves of Chandler/Felton for expiring contracts with some assets involved. If they feel like Chandler can bring them back something in return for the future, I think Asik makes a ton of sense for them to acquire, and look to sign beyond next year. Lin I think has some intrigue because of the past, but I would assume that they would probably only view him as a short term cog to put a few more games on national TV, and thats about it.
team needs a real consistent scorer that doesnt get locked down so easily. He would easily be the biggest threat on this team above harden who is restricted to flailing arms and 3pointers. Melo can score from everywhere and rebound better than everyone on the team except howard
The question here is do you want Melo at the potential cost of Parsons. The trade rumored to be offered from Houston via Real GM was Lin and Asik, whether true or not. That seems like a realistic Morey asking price. While Melo is a REAL nice to have I would not call him a necessity, so more negotiating power for Melo than for say a Rajon Rondo. If that and maybe a first round pick gets Melo you have to do it!! If Parsons is not part of the trade, do everything possible to keep him and if you know you can't then do the same for Jordan Hamilton. Then let Morey do one of the things that he does best and find serviceable players in the draft or as free agents (think Pat Beverley and Francisco Garcia).
I think the Parsons question is the toughest one for both teams. Parsons is a really nice player with upside. However, it's a crap shoot how much he demands when Free Agency rolls around. Do the Knicks take on Parsons knowing that he could potentially impair the cap space during FA? Or that they may not be able to retain him at a fair price? Does Morey hold on to Parsons even IF it kills a Melo deal? Even knowing that Parsons could command a TON in FA? I can see pros and cons for both teams in terms of including Parsons. Enough cons that I could see the Knicks passing on Parsons and asking for TJones + DMo and/or Canaan or Smith instead.
I have never denied a sign-and-trade would be the easiest way for us to acquire a third superstar this summer. What I have tried to show you and others is the way you get teams to agree to lopsided sign-and-trades is by the threat of the superstar being able to walk away for nothing. For instance, if Melo wants to come to Houston he can use his own leverage as a free agent to get the Knicks to agree to sign-and-trade him to Houston for 50 cents on the dollar. He can say, "Sign and trade me to Houston or I'm walking to the Lakers for nothing." That's one way to force a lopsided sign-and-trade. The second way to force a lopsided sign-and-trade is for a team to have the ABILITY to clear cap and sign the player outright. So, in other words, if we know we can clear out cap space to sign Melo then we can present the Knicks with the option of a sign-and-trade or walk away for nothing. Now...you can't force the Knicks to sign-and-trade but.....we have plenty of history that says that teams will sign-and-trade when the know the player is walking on them for nothing. Now in some cases (Dwight/Lakers) a team will let a player walk on them because they can't find any players on the other team's roster that they want over cap space to sign a free agent. In the Dwight saga, Morey would have gladly signed-and-traded Asik and Lin for Dwight. But the Lakers didn't want those guys. The Lakers wanted their cap space to use this summer to sign a player outright. As it turns out the Lakers traded Dwight and a trip to the playoffs for a lottery pick (missing the playoffs) and the opportunity to sign a superstar this summer. They preferred that trade as to trading Dwight for Asik/Lin and a lower echelon playoff birth this year. (They made the better choice of 2 evils. Their best choice would have been to hire Phil Jackson and re-sign Dwight.) But with the Knicks and Carmelo there is no cap space to be retained for next season if Melo signs away. The Knicks will still be over the cap. And if they sign-and-trade for Asik and Lin those contracts expire after next season when the other contracts of Amare and Bargnani expire. So the Knicks aren't going to be facing a choice to lose the opportunity to sign a free agent after next season. The only choice the Knicks face regarding a sign-and-trade of Carmelo is do they want to compete for the playoffs next year or do they want to go ahead and tank out for a lottery pick in 2015???? And even if that is the case, then trading for Lin/Asik in a sign-and-trade if Melo is going to walk on them would represent still a good deal as they could then flip Asik out for a future pick or two and let Lin expire...if they couldn't move Lin for picks as well. So...with that as a backdrop you can see that it is to the Knicks advantage to sign-and-trade Melo if indeed Melo is going to walk on them. However stupider things have happened. And the Knicks have done some of the stupidest things. So they are very capable of being stupid as they have so aptly demonstrated over the past few seasons....including this one when they didn't trade Melo earlier before the trade deadline. They'll get even less for him now if he decides to walk. So....in regards to stupidity...a team has to have the threat of signing Melo outright in order to ensure that the Knicks are willing to talk sign-and-trade. And then it becomes a question of which trades benefit the team signing Melo the most. Is it more beneficial for the Rox to trade away Lin/Asik/Jones/DMo for some combination of future picks...or is it more beneficial to trade Lin/Asik to the Knicks for a sign-and-traded Melo. That is why I say creating cap space to sign Melo (or any other max free agent) this summer comes down to us being able to move Jeremy Lin. Asik can be moved as can Jones and DMo. We could've gotten a first round pick for Asik already. We'll be able to get a first round pick for Asik on draft night. We'll be able to get a first round pick for Asik if he is still here in October. And we for sure can move Jones and DMo and some team may even be willing to give us a low first round pick for one or both of them. So....if we can find the right deal for Lin then we could possibly sign a max player like Melo (or Lebron or Bosh) to a max deal this summer. The question then becomes...what assets are we going to have to send out with Lin to get some team to take him off our hands? And that's where the speculation begins. Because none of us know what that is going to take. However, let's say we find a team willing to take Lin if we send out a first round pick and $3.3 million. That is essentially getting Jeremy Lin for one season and a first rounder for $11.7 million. If Lin's on-court fair salary value is $5 million for a season, then that team essentially bought a first round draft pick for $6.7 million. Now...does that sound like a reasonable deal that some team may do??? Possibly. What if we sweetened it with Jones? Better yet? What about a second rounder too? ..... What if we can trade Asik for a top 14 pick in this year's draft? And then throw that pick in with Lin instead of Jones and our 14 or 15 first rounder? Can you see how a Lin deal can get done now??? (I'm not even going into what all else I think could be done to move Lin out. I'm starting with the worst scenario first...giving up a first rounder to move Lin.) Remember it's the threat of a max player walking for nothing that brings teams to the table to complete lopsided sign-and-trade deals. The deal doesn't have to be done, just agreed to. So we then have to look at the cap space side of the equation: With Lin/Asik/Jones/DMo/Canaan traded away and Garcia opting out, and us dropping Smith/Casspi/Daniels here's what the numbers look like Theoretical cap = $62.9 million Howard $21,436,271 Harden $14,728,844 Parsons $964,750 Beverley $915,243 8 minimum salary slots $4,058,688 (8 x $507,336) Total: $42,103,796 Difference: $62,900,000 - $42,103,796 = $20,796,204 to sign a free agent with outright, which is 92.6% of Melo's max possible salary for next season. If he signed for that he would be losing $1,662,197.70 from what he could have signed for with the Knicks. I won't bore you with the rest of the math but you can then extrapolate that out and look at the net after tax amounts and compare cost of living and you will see Melo wouldn't lose an actual dime but would probably actually make more $$ over a 5 year period by signing that deal. In other words....signing that contract is not going to be a money factor. The money difference won't matter. Now....with all that said and done....that is how you get the Knicks to the table to sign-and-trade Melo to us for just Lin and Asik. And that is why I have said all along from early in the season when I knew Melo was likely going to walk that Lin/Asik would be good value for him from the Knicks perspective. Because it is going to be very difficult for the Knicks to extrapolate more value for Melo in a sign-and-trade. And if all that goes down like so then it really becomes a question of which deal does Houston want to do...do they want to just sign-and-trade for Melo for Asik and Lin or do they want to move out salary and sign Melo outright?
Don't see it happening, nor am I terribly bothered by that. The Knicks will get better offers, and Marshmallow probably wants to go to LA.
Melo would have to be crazy to go to the Lakers over Houston given Kobe's contract and Jim Buss in control. Not to mention the Lakers are still dead in the water next year in terms of cap space (not much improvement over the Knicks). This is the guy that chose D'Antoni over Phil Jackson as the head coach... despite Dwight specifically asking for Phil Jackson.
NO on Carmelo. Nothing to do with not enough balls to go around. Everything to do with being a much worse defensive team, and especially on the perimeter. Championship teams need to be able to handle their own on the perimeter (defensively). Now you want to add Carmelo with Harden? No way. It's a sexy move but not what this team needs to win a title.
