ROFL. Maybe we'll have our third guy that deserves to be put on that graphic next to MJ and LeBron in KD. No, it wouldn't. Not as far as this thread is concerned.
Well in the context of this conversation, if he was a better player, he'd be seen as a better player but he wouldn't be liked because he'd still have the whole rape thing over his head. There is a difference in between liking someone and respecting their game. I greatly dislike John Stockton and Karl Malone, but they were amazing players. If Kobe is the same for me, however he's not a top 10 player.
Well, that's obviously true. It just sounded like you were saying that it would hurt him when debating about basketball.
You guys can post all the diagrams and stats you want. But a very shallow argument this is. The league knew and most of all the people who actually watched knew. You don't just get a reputation for nothing. Kobe was the best at a point in time throughout the 00's and he was kicking ass to all the competition. Just like Lebron and KD are doing now. You can't just live in the now and pretend none of this happened. Every team/fanbase feared the Lakers and Bryant back then, including us Rockets. It's by default really. However, with silly arguments like playing with Shaq, or Jordan was better than etc.. are all hollow and idiotic points. For instance, Kobe ripping apart the Spurs in 2001, when the Spurs were one of the most dominant teams coming up is just a small testament. You look at the numbers and tell me playing Option B with Shaq and putting up those numbers are chump change. Ridiculous Kobe was the best 2 way player in 02-03. A pitbull on defense against perimeter guards. Also, in his prime, it was the best I've ever seen a player go through some of the stretches he was going through. So, again all you idiots with agendas bringing up nonsense, like you started watching the game yesterday is pretty sad. It's the same crap I see people saying about Lebron/KD, discrediting players because they are trying to match with another completely different player. Soon, we'll be ripping these players, when the next big thing rolls in. Oh well, hopefully I made a point, but if not. Carry on with your agendas.
And the funny thing is if Jordan didn't have those year and half where he took a stint at baseball and he didn't come back to play for the Wizards for 2 seasons at the age of 39....then his career FG % would have been over 51% and his overall rebound, assists and steals avg would have also been higher. And he probably could have easily won an extra 2 rings. Also, he should have won the MVP 10 times if the NBA mvp definition wasnt so hazy and if it meant best player of the season.
I saw Kobe's best years. He dominated the league with 2 7-8th seeds, and two glorious first round exits. truly like Lebron. Nobody feared Kobe, we took them to 7 games without Yao Ming,
Well then you would know he dominated along with Shaq, or do his numbers not look like a number 1 option? 05-07 who was he playing with? Care to name them? Yes we did take them to 7 games without Yao Ming for games 4,5,6, and 7. Did Aaron Brooks/Scola not play the series of their lives? Did we not get blown out in the latter 2 games aside game 6? It was us bringing it to them and showing resilient fight that many teams show, when a star player on their teams go down. Band together and fight. Just take a look at the rockets 22 game win streak the year before for examples. Was Shane Battier not one of the best defenders in the game at that moment of time? Was Kobe not torching in that series? I dare you to read the game threads from back then and then tell me with a straight face the league didn't, "fear" Kobe/Lakers. Carry on, I may have just ended you.
If Kobe were as good as you think he was, he would've led the Lakers past the Suns in the 2006 playoffs.
To be fair to Kobe fans, bit unfair to compare Kobe's stats that include his first 2 seasons where he was just bench player. So his stats are not near as bad as what that comparison shows. But the order is still Jordan by a margin from Lebron (bear in mind Jordan's second season he was injured most season and his 10th season he only came back for a few games). In reality Jordan is only been given 8 years to compare to Lebron's 10 years. Kobe and Lebron are neck and neck if you compare accomplishments along with there dominance...but at the end, lebron will widen the margin between himself and Kobe.
MJ remains GOAT unless Lebron gets at least four more rings and maintains his current level of play for another five years. It isn't even a conversation until he does those things. The Finals loss to the Mavs probably cost him GOAT contention. Kobe is done and he falls short of even being seriously mentioned.
Tim Thomas hit a fluke 3 in game 6, off a back tap by Marion to send it to OT. Kobe had 50 in that game. Just like the Spurs were 15 seconds and 1 free throw make away from the 2013 championship. The Suns were outplayed by a one man show in that series. Go back and watch it and tell me I'm wrong.
Answer his question why don't you. Name the starting lineup for Kobe's 2006 team, and then tell me how many are even still in the league.
You're wrong. You're forgetting Lamar Odom's contributions. Look at his numbers for the 3 Lakers' victories that series. They're on par with (if not better) than Kobe's.
I meant overall career. Personal accomplishments would put Lebron way ahead of Kobe...but basketball is a game of championships and accomplishments. Lebron's dominance/personal accomplishments is greater than Kobe, but Kobe has 5 rings which is why I think you can argue at this point of time they are neck and neck. But eventually, Lebron will be ahead
Who cares if they're still in the league? What will that prove? That series was 8 years ago. A lot of careers don't last 8 years. That starting lineup was Smush Parker, Kobe, Luke Walton, Odom, and Kwame Brown. The Suns had Nash, Raja Bell, Marion, Diaw, and Tim Thomas. The gap in supporting cast talent isn't as wide as you think.
Jordan, but it's a closer run thing than i suspected. key stat is championships, and Kobe's 5 stack up remarkably well against Jordan's 6. when you consider the difference between the "supporting" cast of Kobe's first three and the next two, vs the consistency of Jordan's 6, i'm close to to saying Kobe's record is as impressive. what tips it for me is Jordan's indomitable Will. Kobe has an indomitable Arrogance. which is not quite the same thing.
Overall career includes personal accomplishments. If Lebron and Kobe both retired today, Lebron will be remembered as the better player. Basically, it's Lebron's 3 additional MVP's plus his significantly better stats vs Kobe's 3 additional rings. Given that both players have won several championships, which adds more to value to their legacies? For me, it's the MVP's. No contest. Who do you think is higher on the GOAT list...Karl Malone or Kevin McHale?
How did Jordan have consistent teammates for his 6 titles? Only Jordan/Pippen were on all 6 teams. Also, Kobe didn't have a "supporting cast" for his first 3 titles. He was part of Shaq's "supporting cast". The way I see it, Jordan lucked out. The Bulls never faced the Rockets/Spurs in the finals so their huge weakness (their center position) was never exploited. That doesn't change the fact that he still won 6 titles with mediocre centers in an era of great centers. Conversely, Kobe played in an era of mediocre centers, and for each of his titles, he had arguably the best frontcourt in the league.
