Why? Even if George drops 60 on us, everyone should be well convinced by now that Harden is the better player.
Offensively yes. Defensively no. When a guy like George is still leading the league in defensive win shares, it still makes a great case for him vs Harden's offense. They're both great young players. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_top_10.html
It's a pity isn't it. These are not Rockets fan for sure and very gutless to say it privately. Even if I like George better (which I don't) I wouldn't want him to shut down Harden which leads to a L. Harden had been unstoppable especially during clutch moments. That was the difference between us winning games now to us losing close games end of last season and early this season. I was one of the many that hated Harden's ISO. I still don't like it too much but if he is dropping them I have nothing to complain about.
Take their elite defensive C's out of the equation and I bet Harden leads his team to more victories and George's defense suffers a bit. Harden is the better player at this point. He is a lazy ass off the ball defender, but he can defend the post quite well and even give his opponent trouble on man to man defense. He is by no means an elite defender, but his offense is way ahead of George's at this point.
He's a good defender but I think he's overrated a little bit because he plays on such a good defensive team. I don't buy that he's the best defensive player in the NBA, maybe not even top 3.
Of course everyone has there bad games but 2 points is unacceptable. Maybe the Bobcats really tightened their defense after getting embarrassed by LeBron but 2 points?! No way you should be considered a superstar if you only score 2 points in a game. He didn't do much else either, it looks like. 7 boards is nice but 1 assist, 1 block and... 5 turnovers?! And everyone wants to call him a superstar? Definitely not in the same breath as Lebron, Durant, and Paul as George has been this season. And he is slipping with the Harden competition as the seasons moves on as well. To me, George is like last years Warriors team: exciting young player that looks to become the new "it" in the NBA but in reality just a great, but not elite, player built upon by media hype. Harden has his rough nights as well, both offensively and defensively but you could count on him to contribute something if his shot isn't falling. He will get to the line; he had 29 points on 2 made field goals one game. Or if he isn't getting to the line or he can't get a shot, he will get you 6-8 assist and run the offense through him. And lately whenever the Rockets have needed a big play, offensively and even defensively, he is the one making the shot or stripping the ball. He has grown from the start of this seasons while George has regressed.
There whole starting lineup in in the top 12 in defensive win share. Four are in the top 6. George is tops in defensive win share because of his team. Evan Turner's defensive rating has gone from 111 to 99 since he joined the Pacers. Luis Scola is 38th in defensive win share.
You know I've been thinking to myself lately. Why would they let him ISO so much last year? It's making sense, he made a lot of mistakes but he wouldn't be as calm and collected as he now is during clutch time. I can almost pinpoint him stepping up in the 4th and the isos lately have been writhin the offense to where it doesn't stagnate us too much. It's like the team knows this is harden's time and they clear the lanes etc but still wait for the putbacks and rebounds as opposed to just standing there.
So r u implying that if harden was in Pacers, he would be at least as good as PG on defense side??? Or implying that our defense system is so bad compare to pacers??? What's the point dude??
I can see that but does that dismiss the stat just because he's on a good defensive team? It's not like he's not an elite perimeter defender. He does benefit from being on a good defensive team, but anyone who has watched him play can tell you he's definitely an elite defensive player. Harden is an elite offensive player. Both guys have their struggles on offense (George) and defense (Harden). I just treat defense and offense the same. I'll leave it at they're both great young players. I think when both players reach their prime, it'll be a better discussion to have.
His point is a good defensive system makes even bad defenders look good. Defense is more team based (good rotation, recovery, help defense) than offense, where a single elite player could carry the offense. There are many examples of notoriously poor defenders on one team having a very good defensive win share on another. Bulls and Pacers are examples of defensive oriented teams who made poor defenders (Boozer, Scola) look good based on a good defensive system. Thus, individual defense is easily overrated by the system more so than individual offense. Of course, an offensive system could still make a player's offense look good, but in the end making shots and layups is not something that could be controlled by anyone other than the player himself.
no he's saying that harden would have a high defensive win share simply because it's just a composite of the team's defense. It's an utterly useless stat.
Difference between the 2 imo is Harden is a looking like a superstar who can turn it on anytime and win games by himself while paul is a star that plays in the system.
Harden isn't the best offensive player, probably not top 3. George is FAR ahead in def win shares, though. The discrepancy between him and #2 is same as 2nd to 8th. Sure his team helps, but same could be said for Houston's offensive system helping Harden. Rockets are averaging more points without Harden this season. I think Harden is better, but fronting on other players isn't necessary.
