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Ukraine Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    ^ No way we could fight 3 wars at the same time, not that I'm making excused for Bush of all people.
     
  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    It's one thing to go to war in Afghanistan or Iraq, or even another Middle Eastern country where you know that no major power is going to step in to reinforce them.

    It's quite another thing to go war with a legit country. Even if their military isn't the great shakes that people thought it was in the old days of Putin's fantasies, they can still damage us. But on top of any military damage they might do, they could deal severe economic damage to Europe, which in turn would hurt the world.
     
  3. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    Take this post as whimsical one, but this feels like a plot line from House of Cards (international politics style). Putin has wanted Crimea all along, deliberately sets up Yanukovych to refuse the EU deal and reaffirm Russian ties, knowing this will lead to protests in Ukraine. Pretends to offer help, but probably in reality wants Yanukovych out of power, so he stirs up further and further protests in Ukraine until deaths occur and Russia gets an 'excuse' to invade Crimea.

    all the while planning this months, maybe a year in advance. Perhaps Putin is the Russian Underwood.
     
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Russia is not going to able to carve out Crimea from Ukraine, no matter how many Russians they have. The territory is too much a part of Ukrainian identity for them to let go, and it's too important geographically as well. I do think that Putin wants to force Ukraine to keep Russia-friendly policies, and by holding Crimea hostage, he's going to be able to negotiate internal political changes in Ukraine's government to "protect the interests of ethnic Russians in Ukraine" that will effectively empower pro-Russian interests. That should help keep Ukraine out of the EU, out of NATO, and economically dependent on Russia. It seems logical, if perhaps a bit dangerous and unpredictable.
     
  5. HR Dept

    HR Dept Member

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    Casualties on ALL fronts.
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I now get all my news from YouTube.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-Oei0AoCn2A?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8-hpUUk7EHc?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    And Putin won't push anything to the point of getting in a shooting war with NATO. He is tip-toeing this play more than hamfisting it.

    I wonder where these guys are?

    Two US Navy ships arrive in Black Sea before Sochi Olympics
    February 6, 2014 3:57am
    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...ips-arrive-in-black-sea-before-sochi-olympics

    The USS Mount Whitney, a command vessel for the Navy's 6th Fleet in the Mediterranean, arrived on Tuesday after departing its port in Naples, Italy over the weekend, officials said.

    With a crew of 300 sailors and civilian mariners on board, the Whitney is outfitted with sophisticated communications equipment and a helicopter landing deck.

    The second ship, the USS Taylor, is a frigate that arrived in the area on Wednesday, carrying a crew of about 200 sailors.
     
  8. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Ukraine Protests: Leaked EU Phone Call Suggests Kiev Snipers Were Hired by Opposition Coalition



    A phone conversation suggesting snipers who shot protesters in Kiev might have acted on the orders delivered by the opposition coalition - not former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich - has been leaked online.

    The phone conversation features Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet telling EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton his suspicions regarding sniper attacks on protestors that took place in Kiev in February.

    According to the description of the related video uploaded on YouTube, the call was taped by officers of the Ukrainian security services (SBU), loyal to Yanukovich.

    Paet is heard telling Ashton that there was evidence both protesters and security forces came under sniper fire during the deadly protests in the Ukrainian capital last month.

    During the conversation Paet airs the possibility that members of the opposition coalition might have had something to do with the shootings.

    "What was quite disturbing, this same Olga told that, well, all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides," Paet is heard as saying.

    "She also showed me some photos, she said that she is medical doctor, she can say it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened."

    The woman named "Olga", cited by Paet, is believed to be head of the Maidan medical service, Olga Bogomolets.

    "So there is a stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers it was not Yanukovych, it was somebody from the new coalition," Paet says.

    "I think we do want to investigate. I didn't pick that up, that's interesting. Gosh," Ashton replies.

    The Estonian foreign ministry confirmed the recording was genuine and the 11-minute conversation took place on 26 February.

    "The recording of a telephone conversation between Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and High Representative Catherine Ashton that has been leaked online is authentic," the ministry said.

    "We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition's involvement in the violence. "

    "It is extremely regrettable that phone calls are being intercepted," Paet added. "The fact that this phone call has been leaked is not a coincidence."

    A spokesperson for Ashton refused to comment.

    The recording was first picked up by Russia's state-funded news outlets Russia Today and The Voice of Russia and plays in the hands of Putin's rhetoric that dangerous radicals and extremists are rampant in Ukraine following the revolution.

    Earlier this week, Putin claimed that Moscow's military intervention in eastern Ukraine and Crimea would be legitimate and justified on humanitarian grounds because ethnic Russians are under threat from violent Ukrainian nationalists.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-pr...rs-were-hired-by-opposition-coalition-1439035



    Interesting development. FYI, Estonia is a member of EU and NATO.
     
  9. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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    I just wonder how much of this is adding some more 0's to putins bank account vs. loftier goals like world domination?

    If you are waiting for putin to become the worlds richest man and leader of top 3 a super power its already too late for that. Folks need to wake up here a bit. He is worth more than all the forbes list and makes guys like carlos slim and warren buffett look like childs play.

    I just hope putin isn't that ambitious.. and I don't get the sense he is fanatically patriotic like hitler was. I think in that sense putin can be bought, and on some level I am okay with sending him a few more yachts and letting him go fu**ck off on some island. We need to phase this putin guy out.

    Putin does strike me as a bit of a vengeful dude on the whole usa vs. russua thing and he is thumbing the world a bit laughing at 'capitalism' when he is re writing the rules for free market and glasnost. He owns capitalism as worlds richest man. This is taking over the world and playing your game russian style. btw you can't win many bids when its oligarchs controlling the show. Putin has taking our game and turned it on its head folks.

    I talked to some top business guys from sweden recently and they told me they won't even set foot in russia for business. not even a question. The corruption and shi**t show is so rampant in russia the pragmatic swedes say 'no way'

    I just hope that putin isn't as ambitious as hitler and can take his extra gold and go retire. I am getting tired of him and his gangster way of doing business. The bigger issue here is fu**ckheads like putin the person himself.. and the small group of pieces of crap that are bucking the system and living way too high off the hog for no good reason.

    It's getting annoying actually. I am okay with my special night being olive garden but these guys like putin and the 1%.. if you will ..are really starting to bore me with their gold plated dogshi**t.

    First it was bush and 9/11 killing children for money and now its putin starting shi**t. These foo foo rich guys are getting on my last nerve.

    The bigger issue here is the piece of crap mentality that hurts large swaths of the population. It's annoying and deadly for many. Just ask those guys that have died in iraq for halliburton. its sick. putin is sick. but how sick is going to be up to the future. I hope not that sick. I pray.
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
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    FTFY.

    Crimea is wholly dependent on the rest of Ukraine for energy, water, etc. (look at a map). if Russia wants Crimea, they'll take the eastern third of the rest of Ukraine, at a minimum.
     
  11. Qball

    Qball Member

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    I think this will hurt Russia more than any other country.
     
  12. basso

    basso Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  13. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Nobody is denying that the leaked phone call is genuine, so it seems like there are the following possible explanations

    1) Mr. Paet is some kind of secret Russian agent, if that's the case kudos to the Russians in managing to turn a EU & Nation country's foreign minister into their own agent.
    2) Mr. Paet is tricked by some secret Russian agent pretending to be Olga Bogomolets with fabricated evidence.
    3) Mr. Paet's source is not Olga Bogomolets, but someone else named Olga.
    4) Olga Bogomolets is pressured to recant her statement. If the allegations are true, than its more than conceivable that she felt she's at risk if she didn't recant.


    It's like a spy novel.
     
  14. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    or and 5) Mr. Paet is just making crap up on the fly and lying left and right. Though I can't imagine why he'd do that.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    I think 3) is most likely. Mr. Paet might have been fooled.
     
  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That will go about as well as Germany reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine from France, or Germany and the USSR splitting Poland between them.
     
  17. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    Russia Today (Putin propaganda network) anchor resigns on the air

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/55izx6rbCqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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    that actually went quite well from Germany (Prussia's) perspective, at least until 1918.
     
  19. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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    lol.

    RT is no more propaganda than fox news, cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, or any other state run media outlet anywhere in the world. You don't think they've made up news stories?

    They're all propaganda. The US has no moral high ground to criticize them from.
     
  20. val_modus

    val_modus Member

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    What would y'all say to Obama ridiculing Romney during the debates when stating that "the 1980s are calling for their foreign policy back"?
     

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