Workout/Nutrition Help Thread

I'm currently trying intermittent fasting just to switch up the diet a little, but I agree for the most part that it doesn't matter when you eat, it's how much.

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^^^ whoops, in that one he is specifically talking about carbs... this is the one I meant to post. skip to around 1:25...

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Correct.

Total caloric intake is all that matters.

That's why people who advocate 'empty stomach' cardio are a bit off, yes it burns more fat because your body is deprived of energy, but weight loss or gain depends on whether or not you're at a caloric deficit or surplus.

So say you don't eat, and then empty stomach cardio and burn 300 cals.

Then you eat a banana/shake etc and burn 300 cals.

There is literally NO difference if at the end of the day you've consumed the same amount of calories. If eating food beforehand helps you workout harder, then go for it.

 

i think with that question one has to assume we're just talking about when to eat the same food we would have eaten anyway.

Otherwise, people end up thinking they can eat X calories of any kind of food, whether it's donuts and pancakes or chicken and brown rice, and it's all the same. However, that's going to give you a different body composition.

 

I do not believe this to be true. While a person who eats only donuts and pancakes may have a negative blood panel compared to someone who eats brown rice, as far as body composition is concerned it won't matter. It is all energy to the body and it will use everything it can.

Now again, I am not specifically talking about micronutrients, vitamins and minerals. Of course the person eating healthier foods will be healthier overall but body composition wise it doesn't matter.

 

Are you saying I can achieve low body fat on donuts and pancakes? Larger muscles on donuts and pancakes? Compared to a more typical bodybuilder diet? That's what I'm referring to, when I say body composition.

 

You absolutely can achieve low levels of body fat eating donuts and pancakes as long as it fits within your macros. Do I recommend it long term? No. But as far as body comp is concerned it isn't going to matter. And putting muscle on implies you are in a calorie surplus.

Now when you are taking into consideration elite level body builders who get down to freakishly low levels of BF, a lot of food is going to be off limits, even fruit in most cases, not because fruit is in any way fattening but simple because they just don't have many calories to go around. They need nutrient dense/low caloric foods and often times they still don't/can't hit their micronutrient goals.

 

I'm speaking about your average donuts and pancakes though. Yes, there are recipes that can change their nutritional content, but the average person doesn't really understand what "if it fits your macros" means.

My original point was, people get confused because they hear it's only about X calories and don't realize the type of calories matter, when trying to change your body composition.

 

RV6,

I am referring to heading to IHOP or Krispy Creme and picking up pancakes or donuts. A person can get ripped eating this way.

 

But the macros still have to fit, right? Maybe i'm not that familiar with the macros of donuts or pancakes or the selection available at these places, but I'd think you'd still be really limited in what you can pick. And it still wouldn't be just about X calories.

Otherwise, I'd think we see more people eating that way, since there's a good chunk of the population who just want to look good and don't care about health much.

 

i swear there is nothing better for shedding fat than playing basketball on a consistent basis.

You can just feel the fat melting away

 

Yes your macros would still have to fit but it's doable. Take a cinnabon for example I believe one of their cinnamon rolls have around 35 grams of Fat and 135 grams of carbs, I could completely fit one of those into my daily macros if I wanted to.

The problem with this style of eating is 1. overall health and 2. it's not very satiating long term. We tend to overeat things like ice cream, pizza, doughnuts, cake, etc... Because they don't offer much in the way of fiber or protein. Okay pizza may have some nutritional value but the other items are fairly nutritionally void. Google "If it fits your macros," Or "Carb Back Loading," Or "Skip-loading."

Now these are the extremes but you will see that many eat whatever they want and are ripped. Do I advise someone to eat this way? Nope. I actually care about my long term health but I still usually sneak some sort of "treat" into my daily diet but overall it only accounts for ~10% of my total daily calories. Most of what I eat is "clean" overall, think meats, eggs, veggies, fruits, potatoes, rice, quinoa, etc... But honestly, I'm a sucker for some chocolate and ice cream!

 

yes and yes

it depends on whether you're getting enough protein, sleep, training, or operating at a caloric surplus/deficit.

You can eat all the crap you want, but if you burn more calories than you consume in a day, you'll lose weight.

you can absolutely put on muscle if youre getting about 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of bodyweight of protein, and operating at a caloric surplus. It doesn't matter how you get there.

you can absolutely achieve a lower body fat % if you're eating donuts and pizza but your at a net caloric deficit at the end of the day.

Keep in mind this is ignoring intake of micronutrients/fibre/etc. 'iifym' can very easily be abused. Focus of ones diet should always be nutrient rich foods, but it give flexibility in foods if one is disciplined enough.

 

You're basically referring to almost starving (cut weight) and pigging out (out of control bulking). Both the extreme cases, but i think they illustrate how it's possible, even with "donuts and pancakes"....i've ignored those solutions for years now, since they aren't healthy in the long term, so i didn't click right away to what Franchise403 was saying.

The original scenario i was thinking of was the average guy trying to make muscle gains and not gain too much fat. in that scenario he couldn't just cut any 500 calories. He could have different results, depending on where he cuts calories from.

 

Gaining implies a calorie surplus. So this scenario couldn't exist. If he were cutting *ideally* he would keep protein higher, at least 1 gram per pound of body weight, and split the calories from fat and carbs. In the end he could still eat donuts and pancakes and reach his goal whether muscle gain or fat loss.

 

They can cut calories and still be in a surplus, if they were taking an excessive amount to begin with.

 

I am not sure how that would even be possible. I'm referring to either cutting off of maintenance calories or adding to maintenance calories. You can't both be in a surplus and simultaneously be in a deficit.

Just realized what you meant. You could technically be in a 1000 kcal surplus and cut off 500 kcals off of that and it would fit what you were saying. But you would still be putting on a combination of fat/muscle/weight because overall you are still in a surplus.

 

If your maintenance should be 2000 and you're taking in 3000, you can cut a couple hundred calories and still be over you maintenance.


Just saw your edit----yes, i agree, would still be putting on a combo of that. I understand that, but I wouldn't expect that person to just knock off any 500 calories, without looking at where they are coming from. Otherwise, the macros may or may not line up with their goal. My point was I wouldn't look at calories only in this scenario and i think people tend to get confused when they hear calories "is all that matters", which is what Panda23 was saying. It's true, but not in every scenario and people don't always link up their diet with their goals.

 

Yeah I went back and edited my last post! So you want some donuts or pancakes?! :grin: