Native American Shuts Down Anti-Immigration Protest

Not really. Being taken forcefully from one place to another hardly qualifies as immigration. So you can't say everyone who left Africa is an immigrant.

 

You endorsement above would just antagonize current citizens. The illegal immigrants would get equal wages protected by law but still no requirement of taxes (i.e. they aren't tracked) like the rest of us deer are. Only way would be to make them citizens. Would you endorse citizenship?

 

Yes you can. Just the same way people who are forced to move because of drought, disease, Hitler, young Islam terrorists, etc. Any number of reasons causes the movement of people.

 

First step is to eliminate the slave class, we can worry about how the free people feel about it later.

Turning everyone into a citizen won't work. They don't want it, they just want a job. Don't allow it to be legal to pay them so little.

Seasonal workers are allowed and work on the books. They are paid for amount of fruit harvested and it isn't even remotely close to to minimum wage. It makes Obama's current crusade silly.

 

How would it not work? The US Govt says "Become citizens, you get to vote and get protection of the law but you have to pay for it (through taxes)". Basically, as citizens, they will be forced to pay for their ticket to play in this side of the sandbox. Then there would be no worries about the illegal immigrants getting free services because they all would be legal and registered under IRS as citizens.

I'm under the impression all the hoopla is that we have people in this country benefiting from services which they don't pay for. Isn't this correct?

 

Yeah, seasonal workers are also ripe for exploitation. Since they are pretty much tied to their employers they have little leverage to demand better working conditions. Additionally DOL has not been active enough in preventing H2B employers who have abused or engaged in fraud from hiring again. That's the problem with non-full statuses for immigrants, you create an underclass that can never use the threat of political action to bring about change. This underclass status hurts the moral fiber of American society and it hurts the undocumented and it could be avoided through legalization.

 

It won't work because your little crap plan leaves those who don't want to become citizens out in the cold still. Making a law that all people must be paid no matter their status works. Being paid less than the minimum? Report your employer. We won't deport you, we will fine him your back wages.

Do you have no decency and feeling for people working all day for nothing? If they don't want to legally leave their old country they should have no protection in your opinion?

You said it.

 

It doesn't have to be citizenship, they can stay as LPRs for as long as they want. You are right, there are many people that might never decide to become citizens, but they should have the option. Having LPR status would give them better bargaining power in the workplace and just as importantly the ability to travel and a higher level of due process rights to protect their status upon re-entry than would any other existing status. I think what Qball means is that they should be given the optional pathway to citizenship that being an LPR provides - he's just being lazy in spelling it out.

 

Doesn't your little [descriptive] plan give people a benefit that they didn't pay for? Are you OK with them getting equal pay but not paying taxes?

Yes to your first question. No to your second question. I don't see how becoming a citizen and paying taxes to get "protection" you mention is an unreasonable trade.

 

Yes, correct. It's 12:29am.

Citizen, greencard, whatever...point is to be on the record for paying their fair share (taxes). Anyone who would want to be a greencard holder and pay taxes but not be able to vote is getting ripped off. But ya, that option should be there for them.

 

Meh, if their ancestors had done more with their time on this planet, and devised better weapons for defense, they might have had the ability to defend their land. They didn't, so it's not their land anymore. The funny thing about land is that it's only yours so long as you can keep anyone from taking it from you.

There is no such thing as a true "native" if you go back far enough, everyone stole the land from someone who wasn't capable of holding on to it.

 

You do know that disease Europeans brought over wiped Native Americans out more than anything right? Some studies say that the hardest hit areas had a 90% death rate.

If you think they lost their land because of "weapons" and "defense" you really need to open a book sometime.

 

The ol' "blame the victim" routine.

 

Are you the type of dude that condones rape because a girl "asked for it" and couldn't defend herself?

 

Disease was a factor that contributed to them not being able to hold on to the land that they claimed to be theirs, but it's not the only factor. There could have been no disease whatsoever, and the end result would have been the same...there just would have been a lot more massacres along the way. Also, it doesn't really matter "why" they weren't able to hold on to the land, the only person that really "owns" land is the person that can hold it and prevent anyone from taking it. For various reasons, they were too weak to hold on to their land, so they lost it. That's just how the world works, how it has always worked.

 

Yeah I guess it was perfectly okay for Hitler to try to invade neighboring countries, because **** those Polish and French guys for not having better weapons than Germany

 

Is that the guy whose family came across the land bridge into Alaska?

 

At what point did I say it was "okay"? I said that's why it happened, why it was always going to happen. Sitting around whining about morality or some sense of ownership won't change the fact that in the end, no one cares about those things when there is something they want and there is someone too weak to hold on to it.

 

That's not the way it's always been. The Indians (see Gandhi and Nehru and their friends and methods)drove out the British without having the might to drive them away.