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Ukraine Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Did you read the article? It sounds like the Dragon X could and will be a manned vehicle and that it won't take much to use it as an escape vehicle.
     
  2. white lightning

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    There were no insults in my post. Do you agree that the majority of your posts are simple one sentence declarations of your opinion on the president? When people call you out, you claim that you are being insulted, when in fact I did not insult you. I'm waiting for an apology.

    It's very ironic that you constantly berate posters for insulting you, telling them that they have nothing to say if they have to resort to insults. Your typical post about Obama is just that- an insult- usually along the lines of calling him a clown or woefully unprepared. You offer no critical analysis. Exactly the kind of post that you put down as an insult unworthy of your time when other people do it to you.
     
    #322 white lightning, Mar 3, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    The problem is that there is an argument that when it comes to foreign policy, President Obama IS a woefully unprepared clown. If you disagree, argue against it rather than attacking the person who made that argument. That's how debate works.
     
  4. False

    False Member

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    So, spell out the argument that can be made that Obama is a woefully unprepared clown. Please, for the benefit of us mere mortals that lack the ability to read minds.
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Should have been done when the Shuttle was. Either we can service it or not.
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    The guy is delusional. Huge difference between returning junk and returning people. You can't just throw in, as he says, a few "couches and breathing masks". You are years away even just from returning men from orbit. A decade away from sending them to orbit and returning.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Well his approach to foreign policy has been inept and I'm not sure that even his supporters would argue that. From Benghazi to Syria and now in Ukraine. The US was seen as a country ruled by an out of control cowboy when dubya was in office, now they are seen as an irrelevant weakling under Obama. Russia doesn't think for a second that the US would ever actually stand up to them, and they are right.

    Obama was living in a fantasy land where he thought the US was good friends with Russia, and Putin has repeatedly taken advantage of his naivete.

    At this point, I don't even think the argument really has to be made, because it should be self-evident that the current president's foreign policy is a joke. I think the better question is, what's the argument that Obama is any more than an unprepared clown when it comes to foreign policy?
     
  8. white lightning

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    This is the exact point I'm making about Texx.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    lol you don't get it.

    You attacked me rather than commented on the article.
     
  10. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    You mean like how we let the people of Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc fight for their cause?
     
  11. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Crimea River.
     
  12. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    Wasn't born for Vietnam or Korea, so cant comment for that...

    Desert Storm was justified(Iraq invaded Kuwait), Afghanistan was justified(Bin Laden needed to be caught/killed; just cant believe that the world's greatest military and international covert agencies werent able to locate and kill that SOB much earlier)...

    2nd Iraq War(fake WMDs) was clearly inappropriate...Bin Laden was supposed to be the primary target...Bush lost site of that and tried finishing off what Dad Bush started...lets also include the Kosovo war as well...which, the US with NATO decided to act...never acted unilaterally...

    Just because these wars happened, doesnt always mean that people agree with the decisions of the government. The nation was heavily divided on Vietnam war...You fail to understand that regardless of the reason the Russian government has put forth, you do not invade another country's territory. The members of their government should make appropriate decisions pertaining to their land.
     
  13. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    And I agreed with you that the Russians have the right arm and send volunteer fighters to the region if they deem its necessary...But there is no civil war, and Ukraine still had a functioning government that used legislative processes to impeach the man whom they saw was unfit to run the country. Instead what the Russians are doing is plain and simply an invasion of a foreign territory. That action should have international consequences...
     
  14. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Normally, it would. Norms may not be tangible, but there's usually some blowback for doing this sort of thing. Look at how Saddam fared after invading Kuwait, invading a sovereign state is generally frowned upon.

    That being said Russia, like the US, is a bit different from the rest of the world. They have a permanent seat on the UN security council, they have a large economy, and are big players in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. The consequences will be minimal, unless something dramatic happens.
     
  15. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Does this not matter?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

    When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the newly independent Ukraine had on its territory what was the third largest strategic nuclear weapons arsenal in the world. It was larger than those of Britain, France, and China combined. On June 1, 1996 Ukraine became a non-nuclear nation when it sent the last of its 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantling.[1] The first shipment of nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russia (by train) was in March 1994.[2] In return for giving up its nuclear weapons, Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity
     
  16. white lightning

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    lol you don't get it. I never attacked you. Please describe the attack. I called your posts single-minded. This is not an attack. Keep on denying...
     
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Dear right wing, no one sees America as a weakling country except for minority pockets of fascists in different parts of the world. Nazis. "Islamists". People loyal to the North Korean government. That kind of thing.

    This rehearsed line that's being thrown around - that Obama has somehow given the world a perception that America is soft - is a total myth. The huge majority of the rest of the world is not thinking anything has changed, and that's because they know from experience not to believe the PR machine which is implying a more friendly foreign policy from the United States. Everyone knows from experience that less soldiers means more mercenaries and weapons purchases. Everyone knows "we are staying out of this conflict" means "we will operate through a proxy country." Everyone knows "we're no longer spying on your President" means "we will do this with more secrecy to avoid embarrassment. Everyone knows "we're pulling out" means "we're only leaving 10's of thousands of troops there and a direct line into the intelligence agency."

    It may have been the case early in his presidency. But today he's defined by the uptick in spying, illegal warfare, willingness to lie, extra judicial killing, harassment of whistleblowers, etc. He is a far more ruthless President than GWB, he just happens to be better at sugar coating his words and using more efficient strategies of achieving his goals.

    This is, IMO, a reality that most people on the "left" and right aren't comfortable acknowledging. But based on his actions - rather than his stated goals - it is absurd to call him a weak president, or to say he has weakened America. Perhaps you can say he has convinced a few more people that the empire is not behaving in the same way it has behaved for the past 60 years. But given his track record of cute talk and what we factually know beyond a shadow of a doubt about his marketing strategy, it is insincere to go on believing what he says publicly.

    If there's any title you're going to give him, I would think about whether he is the most prolific liar in the history of American presidents. Not so much because he likes to lie more, and moreso because of the greatness of what he promised.
     
  18. LosPollosHermanos

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    As if Russia or any country on the face of the planet is even a threat to us, lol.

    This is not the time to be starting a war unless all other options have been exhausted. Too many people in our country focus on getting buthurt when we should be concentrating on what will yield us the best results in the longterm. That decision might not come immediately, but it will be the most thought out. We are anything but a weakling nation, all the other militaries of the world combined probably won't be able to beat us if it ever came to that near apocalyptic scenario.



    This is actually a good point and does stress the severity of the matter, I think we will see a decision coming up in a week.
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
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    I don't disagree.
     
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    This. He purposefully lies to the American public for his own benefit.
     

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