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Ukraine Protests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I think you try to limit the responses to saber rattling, let some time pass; work in the background to apply pressure (like having everyone you can call start dumping rubles) and probably negotiate with the new government of Ukraine to allow Crimea autonomy and a continued supply of food water and electricity.

    You have to diffuse the emotions wherever you can.
     
  2. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    There is a treaty in place between the USA, UK and Ukraine that if they gave up heir Nuclear weapons their borders would be protected, so if Russia starts shooting the US and UK must repond with military.
     
  3. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Exactly what military?

    If you are talking a Coalition of the Willing and you are ready to wait 12 months while they assemble in Poland then maybe. But you need to think in today's realities. If Pooty wants to drive an armored column to Kiev, there is nothing the West can put in his way to stop him.

    There is also the reality that in the end it would not afford him sea lanes because the Black Sea only has access through NATO ally Turkey.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    1 person likes this.
  5. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    Must? Give your personal connection to the country, it's understandable that you'd personally like US & UK to intervene militarily but so far US, UK, France & Germany have not even hinted the possibility of military intervention. William Hague have pretty much outright rejected military intervention.

    In my opinion, Ukraine should just allow Crimea to hold a referendum on whether they want to secede or remain a part of Ukraine. If your view point that everything that's wrong with Ukraine is somehow the Russian's fault is popular in Ukraine, than I can't imagine why the ethnic Russians would want to stick around as ethnic minorities in Ukraine.
     
  6. hlcc

    hlcc Member

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    It's a bit misleading and severely overestimating Ukraine's military strength. For example, most of Ukraine's fighter jets have been in reserve instead of active service for years now. So it's most likely that 1) Quite a few of them are not ready to be activated 2) Even if all those reserved fighters can be activated immediately, Ukraine does not have enough qualified pilots to fly these planes. Today the pilots for any air force that's worse a damn average at least 150+ flight hours per year, with most of Ukraine's fighter jets mothballed for years now it's hard to imagine how they managed to accomplish this. 3) Also aren't the Russians in control of Sevastopol airport now? If so, that just means Ukraine just lost 1/2 of their modern fighter jets.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think it's more complicated than just saying it's Obama's fault, but I do think US posture toward Russia has been wrong for years, perhaps since Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul. We've so wanted to put the Cold War behind us and integrate the former Soviet republics into an integrated global community. But, Putin doesn't want to be friends and he doesn't love democracy. He's our enemy but we pretend to be friends. But, again it's still too easy to just say Bush and Obama should have done it differently. Antagonizing enemies before you need to isn't necessarily wise.

    I'm thinking of the question of what to do now, something I'm probably totally ill-equipped to answer. I think one response is an Iron Curtain Redux speech that essentially renews the Cold War and puts the threat of nuclear war with Russia back on the table. Then everything Russia does to expand its power at the expense of our European allies will be a fight. Another could be a tit-for-tat in Russia's other proxy wars. We might not be able to oppose Russia in Ukraine, but we could invade Syria, remove Assad outright, and install an anti-Russian government instead to thwart Russian middle east interests. We could also accelerate the LNG export buildout to preserve European energy needs if Russia turns off the taps. Or, of course, we could do nothing -- is it so bad if Russia takes back Ukraine?
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    People are forgetting that during the G.W. Bush administration, Russia waged a full-blown invasion of theoretical US ally Georgia (who had a bunch of its troops stationed in Iraq at the time) - and all the help they got was a free ride back to Georgia for a few of their guys left in Iraq and W moved a few boats around. Which shows you about how much people care.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    very different and you know it.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    whoa-hoa, that's rather quick and snippy - looks like . . .

    [​IMG]
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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  12. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    Let just say for example, if a bunch of folks from Mexico decided to immigrate to Texas, and then the Mexican military decided to enter into Texas under the pretense that they are protecting their interests and the Mexican Citizens in the state of Texas...How likely is it that the Union would allow for the state to secede to Mexico???

    To ask the people of Ukraine to be ok with a Russian invasion into their territory(Crimea)..for any agenda is in direct violation of international law. If Russia is so concerned about their citizens...perhaps they should have offered to purchase the lands from Ukraine...Now that is a realistic and reasonable request. Anything else is really just an invasion. This is the dangerous game Russia is playing with the international community...
     
  13. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    So you're telling me that if a state, Texas for example, voted to form its own country, we would not let them?

    Pffft
     
  14. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    Whether it happened under "W" or if it is happening right now under Obama...the fact of the matter is that Russia is still doing it. The control of the country of Ukraine has a significant impact to country's located to the east(Really Europe). Russia would have tremendous control of the economies of these new neighbors...
     
  15. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    They functionally had a referendum. In 1991, when Ukraine voted to secede from the USSR, 56% of Crimea actually voted for independence.
     
  16. HR Dept

    HR Dept Member

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    This is just Russia being Russia.
     
  17. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    The Constitution doesnt directly address this, but the courts have stated that the Union is "indestructible"...so no...
     
  18. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Ukraine is the bread basket of europe. Eu wwnts it and russia wants it. Russia had it with yanukoyvch.

    And crimea is a beautiful warm place. All the russian politicians vacation there.
     
  19. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    There's really not a whole lot we can do, since Syria, Iran, and Korea all requires Russian cooperation, and there's a slim chance of any military action, given how reluctant we are to go to war this decade. Putin isn't stupid, he wouldn't be doing this if US/NATO wasn't in such a bind.
     
  20. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Member

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    Hey Ukraine...Crimea river!

    Am I the only one that can't get Justin Timberlake out of my head from this news?
     

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