Out of curiosity: Yao or Howard, now that we have Howard

Scratching my head ... that tablet of yours... Tag => WTF Geesh.

 

Ok, fine, care to explain why Yao's "substantially" worse than Howard defensively?

 

When you add in the fact that Howard's numbers are coming in a fast paced offense, where he really does not have to establish himself in the post as much as you like to think. For a center in year 10 to seem like neophyte in the post is awful lot. It's substantial in the way teams play against you. Dwight is a player, you rarely have to double team or zone heavy against away from the ball. Not the case with Yao, he's always accounted for under or away from the basket, because for a center he had reliable jump shot and moves under basket. Add in his size and automatic free throw shooting ability ... it makes alot changes for a team, especially if you have forwards who also can score. Do you even realize how much better the Lakers would've been last year ... if they had Yao, instead of Dwight. For Dwight's other-worldly athleticism, he does not matchup in BBIQ and skills in regards to Yao.

Also going by you're own definition of substantial, Dwight is only averaging what a good 2-3 rebounds more than Yao, the term you used is "much better" I think not. Only marginally.

 

i would rather have dwight howard and it's not even close. yao gets taken out of games way too easily. all you have to do is front him and he's negated. dwight may not be as polished offensively but at least he will always dominate the boards and get some dunks. yao will get blocked and stripped and he's too soft.

 

Another thing is that Yao took more FG attempts as the #1 option. Yao's shots were both out on the perimeter and in the post. Dwight does have the benefit of playing in a much faster pace offense, as you already stated, but he does not take as many total FG attempts as Yao did that season. Dwight's FG% is indeed higher, but that's mainly because most of his shots are in the paint, and not on the perimeter as compared to Yao.

 

I agree with "front defenses" def. having a MAJOR impact on Yao. With Dwight, if I were Dwight and constantly see front defenses, I would trick opponents by posting up further away from the basket, give a hand signal, and have a clear path to the basket and alley-oop opponents all day.

 

^^^ But, I will say this, objectively, where Yao takes his shots or pace of the game probably is not good example that sets Yao apart from Howard offensively. For one Yao could not get up there high dunk it like Howard. Yao's strength is at post drawing double teams and Howard's is rim run, putbacks, offensive rebounds. Howard is pure gold in a small ball against small ball, while Yao sucked air like a dead tree. However, Yao would probably put us at a better position against teams we currently have no chance against. Yao for playoff! (We would have for sure beat the '10 Cavs in a playoff series like we always back then)

 

I'd prefer a prime Yao if Yao could remain healthy. But he couldn't. It's a simple as that. Got to go with Howard.

 

Fronting defense worked because Yao was physically a slow reacting player, which was a problem throughout his career. Sure he was fast, for a 7-6 guy...but that doesn't mean he was fast in an absolute sense for the NBA. He had a hard time adjusting to the ball in the air, not because he didn't recognize it, but becuase he couldn't stop his immense bullk, once it got moving in one direction, and then amke it start moving in another direction. It's nto that Najera or Boozer wanted it more, it's just that they were able to get there faster.

The Rockets changed the cast of characters around him repeatedly - there were dozens of guys of all shapes and sizes and with all manner of playing styles tasked with throwing him entry passes or otherwise overcoming fronting defenses with him on the court - Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, Tracy McGrady, Rafer Alston, Mike James, Jon Barry, Bob Sura, Shane Battier, Bostjan Nachbar, David Wesley, Bonzi Wells, Moochie Norris, Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry, Jim Jackson, Ron Artest, Luther Head, Von Wafer - and yet this problem recurred again and again no matter who was there,and whether they were under the Thibodeaux-JVG half-court/post-centric regime or the more freewheeling Adelman style (which looked a lot like the JVG style, because he had a big giant 300 lb focal point when he first started...). And like I said before the fact that during his multiple absences, the Rockets offense didn't suffer a ton (or as in 2008 - improved significantly when he was gone) during his absences seems to indicate otherwise

In spite of all these shortcomings though, he was still an incredibly effective player - this was both a blessing and a curse. You had to tailor your team's plan to his strengths when he was on the floor. it was stupid not too. But it didn't really work out that great for the Rockets back then, for various reasons.

Dwight on the other hand doesn't really have this limiation (yes I get the hack a dwight, but that hasn't been a huge factor since he improved his shooting after November).

 

Yao...Better post up, better shooting, better FT.

 

Seriously? You think all those players had problems throwing entry passes to Yao? You think Yao faced fronting defenses back when we had Steve Francis? Get real. The only player who consistently had problems with the entry pass was Aaron Brooks.

You keep blaming Yao, but you're not considering the weaknesses of his teammates. When defenses fronted Yao, they left the rim vulnerable. So what's the best way to take advantage of this vulnerability? Ball movement and attacking the basket. Did Brooks attack the basket? No. Did McGrady? Not really. Could Battier? No. Scola? No.

Now look at our current roster. If we had a lineup of Beverley, Harden, Parsons, Jones, and Yao, how could other teams hope to front Yao? We're simply too athletic and versatile. Harden would drive straight to the unprotected rim. Or he'd swing the ball to Parsons who'd drive to the rim. And keep in mind, since Yao is being fronted, he has the inside position. We'd have plenty of options.

If we had a healthy Yao instead of Dwight, we'd be a significantly better team.

 

Howard hands down. The guys carried Orlando into the final, while Yao couldn't get the Rockets pass the 1st round, with Tmac.

You put Howard with Tmac, instead of Yao, they would advance deep into the playoff.

Now if you team Yao with Harden, instead of Howard, this team will not be as good, because he won't be able to run.

 

I chose Howard just because he fits this team better. Hes getting better and better and has a huge defensive presence. If we were to build around one though, I'd build around a healthy Yao. Prime Yao was a dominant beast. Especially when he played mad.

 

I'm not sure why you're talking about Yao, when my post was talking about how the offense should run when teams front Yao. They are incredibly different basketball concepts. Of course force feeding the ball to Yao when they front/double him is bad basketball. Why did we do it? Because we had crappy supporting cast around him.

First of all, fronting defense didn't even exist back in Francis/Mobley days. Back then Yao was just running pick and rolls with them.

Second of all, which Rocket player besides half a season of Lowry(back when he couldn't hit a jumper to save his life) and Brooks who could attack the basket?

Just because you name a bunch of slow ass players that couldn't take Francisco Garcia off the dribble mean that they're all somehow good ones. I have watched every single one of the players you've listed. Not a single one of them goes to the basket even as well as Jeremy Lin. Not even T-Mac the guy who comes off picks and shoots 20 footers. None of them.

So don't list a bunch of stiffs as a reason why fronting Yao was successful. If Yao was fronted today, James Harden would average at least 5 more layup/dunks per game.

 

Dwight wouldn't provide you with any of these examples:

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Yao made Dwight his b**** every time.

 

Your comparison isn't fair.

Yao and Tmac would have got into the Final every single year if we were in the East. Vice versa, in no way Dwight could have made it to the Final if they were in the West. They be seconder rounder at best.

 

I'd rather have Howard. If we have him instead of Yao, we beat the Jazz in 07, because he wouldn't have get abused by Boozer and Okur on defense.

 

He also overlooks the fact that Yao and T-mac were only mutually healthy their first year... I'd like to see an offensively limited Dwight in place of Yao help Tracy take a team that had David Wesley, Ryan Bowen and Scott Padgett playing heavy minutes...

 

In the strong west no less...