That 2001/2002 Sacramento Kings team was one of teams of all time. They just happened to be unlucky to have to peak when the Lakers had their second best team ever and one of the top 5 teams of all time. So yes, if they had Kobe instead of Peja, they would have won the title. I mean, they would have swept the Nets in the Finals just like the Lakers did that year.
Wasn't Peja injured for the first 4 games, and limping for the last 3? If Peja was just healthy, the Kings win that series, even through the epic ref show.
Is Durant 6"9 ? If Ibaka and Perk. Are 6"9,6"10 he is an inch or 2 taller. He is at least 2-3 inches over Parson and T.J. So he is 6"10 or 6"11 kobe has better career that Durant might not have, but KD is better in my opinion than L.James , part of that, i dont like Kobe or L.J that much
Same thing that could be said for Kobe's first 3 titles, especially the first 2. But hey, it takes a team to win a trophy. Substitute most great players with very good players those team will still win the NBA.
I disagree. Prior to 1999/2000 season is say that Kobe was inconsistent and it was all Shaq, Eddie jones, and nick van smack. But when Phil Jackson arrived, Kobe really came into his own during the playoffs. They were a good team but, until Kobe figured it out, they weren't a championship team. I even remember the game early in the series vs the blazers where his light bulb went off. They were down by six or seven with time running out and Shaq fouled out. Kobe drained consecutive threes and then stole the ball which led to more points to close out the game. Up to that point, I was never sure if Kobe would pan out. Later in that same series, I think game seven, they were down again and Kobe and Shaq led them back together capped off by the famous alley opp chicken dance play. Anyway, I don't see Kobe as just another player on those teams which are arguably the greatest championship teams in history. They had Shaq dominating the middle, and after Kobe figured it out, a closer for the 4th quarter that they didn't have before. If Shaq were jeter to those teams, Kobe was Rivera. And the one that had the ball in winning time.
So your telling me Kobe was just a role player on those championship teams w/ Shaq? A role player? Lol. These conversations always go from Kobe hatred to just plain stupidity lol.
I can tell you understand the game of basketball. The point you made about Shaq's free throws is 100% correct. That's exactly why you can't dismiss Kobe's contribution during that time. He was partners w/ Shaq, not a sidekick. Sidekicks don't single handedly take games over. Great post
The bolded statement is only true if you're implying that Shaq was just a roleplayer on that Miami team. Stupidity indeed
I do not think he was saying that, but you are trying to win two sides of an argument ... while trying to discredit other players. 1. You have to realize this, and I know it's hard for you to accept, but Kobe landed on a "prime-time" NBA franchise, Los Angeles Lakers. When he first got to LA, he was on a team that feature Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Rick Fox, and newly-acquired "Shaquille O'Neal." That team didn't leave up to expectations, so they ended up with PHil Jackson, shipping out Van Exel and Jones, and getting machine gun scoring Glen Rice. Ran to 3 Championships, easily...while retooling in 2003 with two hall of fame talents, Malone and Payton, still quality players. The Kobe-Shaq feud escalates, Shaq is shipped out for Odom, Butler, and Grant, while Phil retires for a moment. In comes Rudy T., the Lakers struggle but are remaining competitive mostly with Kobe and two pretty 2 and 3 punches in Butler and Odom. Though, he gets injured, Lakers miss playoffs, while they trade Butler in offseason for Brown (hard to say trade). Kobe was never a role player (only a delusional person would say otherwise), though he never lead a team to the Finals being the only All-Star worthy player on his roster (that almost never happens in the NBA, if ever). Only two players have actually won like that, I think it's Rick Barry (74) and Olajuwon (94). What you and the other people trying to discredit Durant and even LeBron cannot seem to understand is the "standard" that you are trying to make has only been done by two guys, who aren't even considered top 5 players by most (Olajuwon, maybe, but most people will look at you funny, outside of Houston or serious NBA circles, if you mention Dream over Shaq, Russell, or Kareem). 2. Shaquille O'Neal was the bonafide Go-to guy on those teams, he was the guy that defenses had more nightmares about at the time than Kobe. He got the easiest scoring opportunity; the most points; his game was the most efficient; altered defensive schemes more so; altered offensive scheme more so (big body middle); and he got the other teams' big men in foul trouble. Even though, I hate using this in an argument, but his PER was always higher than Kobe's even as he declined...he found a more efficient way of basketball. I think alot of people simply say Kobe wasn't the main guy, that's it. It doesn't means he's a role player or a lesser basketball player ... he simply has another person on the team that he has to defer to. Nothing is wrong with that Magic deferred to Kareem, Worthy, Scott, and others often. Bird didn't need to be dominant scorer or playmaker, when Parish and McHale could kill teams under the basket. While, even the totality of the Celtics offense was pretty deadly. The Pistons simply had a bunch of guys who could play championship level defense, while also not being a liablity scoring wise, except Rodman and Mahorn. Even as great as MJ was, the Bulls' hallmark of domination was built more on defense than offense. As we had already seen, before, super unstoppable MJ by himself, couldn't even get the Bulls out of the first round for 5 years or even to a title for 8. 3. Efficiency ... that's what bodes in the favor of Durant and LeBron in these arguments is both players are overall more efficient than Kobe and more willing initators of team offense. 4. Versatility ... in most of these wing player arguments, you'll find that most wings, especially the scorers can get their points as much as anyone, even at a good rate. But the one thing that separates them, is their overall games...their defense, their playmaking ability, getting crucial rebounds, efficient shooting, and getting teammates easier opportunities. Historically speaking, shooting guards are at disadvantage, given the height and weight differences. Comparing anyone to Magic, LeBron, or Durant is almost unfair given, their physical specimen status. 6,9 players who can play every position on the floor, literally. 5. Most superstar players end up on cellar dwellar teams... Durant ... LeBron ...Big O ... MJ ... Olajuwon...Shaq. You don't magically end up on a contender unless some very circumstantial benefits occur, like a down-year, injured superstars/core players, aging roster, or incompetence of a coach or GM.
Kobe averaged over 27 points per game last year and about 6 boards and 6 assists so, if he comes back from injury, it may be premature to say it's over.
Rick Fox actually wasn't on the team until the following year...but I'm surprised you didn't mention that Robert Horry was on the team Kobe joined his rookie season. It works both ways though...Kobe wasn't given the green light to put up numbers like others like MJ, Lebron, and Durant got because they were on garbage teams to begin with. Kobe made up for it when Shaq was out of town by dropping 50+ point games almost on a weekly basis and even 81 one night. Again, that Lakers team he joined was a playoff team, but not a contender until Kobe figured it out in 1999/2000 and gave Shaq the 4th quarter presence that made them almost unstoppable for those 3 years. They really should have won 5 in a row, but Shaq got complacent and pissed Jerry Buss off...which led to his boot from LA. Everyone also always says Kobe pushed Shaq out of LA...but really, it was Shaq's relationship with Buss which fell apart.
Tough times for Kobe stans. All the goat talk, but before he's even retired there comes not one, but two players that are doing things he was never capable of and who will go down as the clearly better players, if injuries don't derail their careers.
