Jonathan Martin

You're making a case for Incognito. Martin is the victim and Incognito is the perpetrator. Martin will more than likely be on a team before Incognito will.

Unlike other NFL players who committed crimes and still got to play... Incognito is bringing a lot of negative attention on the NFL which is something that those other players didn't and stopping bullying is a big deal in this country since kids have gone gun crazy and shooting up schools. And Incognito seems like the kind of guy who you may have to pull a gun on and use it to get him to stop messing with you. What if Martin would have took it to that point instead of leaving like he did...???

And with an openly gay player about to come in the league and other gay players who have played and kept it hidden because the fear of being ridiculed in the locker rooms (amongst other things) Roger Goodell may want to clean up extreme bullying in the locker rooms (especially since he has a gay brother) and Incognito could end up being a sacrificial lamb with a big punishment for letting players know what will happen to them if they extremely bully Michael Sam and other gay players as well.

 

Lets blame the victim.

 

I'm not blaming him for being victimized, I'm blaming him for his actions. For example, if a woman is raped then she proceeds to find the guy who did it and tortures and kills his entire family and then burns to the ground the entire neighborhoods that they live in, should she go unpunished for those actions?

Just because you are victimized doesn't mean that you aren't still held accountable for what you do to others. Martin destroyed the entire season for the Dolphins because he was upset. Why pick up a guy who would do that?

 

So now Bobby is practically blaming the Dolphins not winning the super bowl on Martin... Lol...

Obviously Bobby thinks it's ok for white people to call black people the "N word." I wonder why...??????

Bobby puts all blame on Martin and none on Incognito and his teammates for letting that stuff carry on.

Bobby has bombarded this thread with disapproval of Martin and he's certainly sticking to his guns with the horrible example he gave with the rape victim. That's a Bama fan for you folks.

 

I'll take Incognito

 

One last thought before I sound like I can't forgive less than epic character flaws. Because we fans are infected with the Numero Uno at Any Cost Syndrome, society as a whole has created a "can't do wrong" entitled class of sports figures, celebs, politicians and business moguls. Membership is earned with money, fame and/or power but rarely with integrity and conscience. The kids looking for a true national hero don't stand a chance. Go Rockets, Texans and (only after the 20th anniversary of the 1994 strike) the Astros.

 

I see Bobby's point, and cannot argue against, because your talent and ability is what matters at the end of day. That's what meritocracy is supposed to be and why the NFL, along with every other professional league is such a joy to watch, because you are watching the "best of the best" competing and "at-work" performing at the highest level of their talents. There are few industries you can say that about outside arts, science fields, and etc. There used to be a time in sports where personal politics and biases effected over team decisions based on religion, race, and even class. We've reached a point in history where it doesn't ... When you have people, like Ty Cobb and Richie Incognito, sometimes you have to weigh the risk of such a guy in the locker room. Ty Cobb would've been alot worse than Incognito, especially being virulent and unapologetic racist ... (OMG, I don't know how he would be able to play in modern MLB locker room with black/latin players; Asian players; and even suspected LGBT players) he's a much greater talent than Incognito, though. Incognito wouldn't be worth the trouble as he is ... it's not going to hurt very much to release, given that he's also over 30 and teams not significantly better with him. Still for some of things that Incognito did, and what Ty Cobb did in his time, were to be done by him now, he probably would almost be out of league, as troubled players. He would get Terrell Owens or Barry Bonds treatment. It would almost force him to retire, unless he changed. Michael Vick is not the best example to use, given that he did do his time and in jail, did show he was reformed. You do have to take things like that into consideration (on circumstances) and he's not a threat to other individuals or prone to trigger harassment lawsuits. Basically, not costing the team money.

 

Do us fans really consider these things? For example, did you root for Vernon Maxwell when he was helping us getting a championship? Did you root for Ron Artest when we beat the Blazers?

I admit I wish my team were made up of Shane Battiers and Yao Mings. But when the team's winning, it's hard to just say, "I'm not watching because guy on the court once quit on his team and being a baby."

 

Have you read the complete Wells report?

 

Does it matter? I don't see how anything in the Wells report would change anything at all. Incognito is a terrible person and Martin is a weak minded rat that blue falcon'd his entire team. Specifics are irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is who the players support, so far what I've heard is that Incognito is supported by his team so he might work again but I could see how he might not. IMO there's next to no way Martin ever works again in the NFL because I haven't really heard anyone support him. Martin is like the best man who brings a camera to the bachelor party then shows everyone's wives the photos afterwards, no one likes that guy even if you can make a case that he was "doing the right thing" after a fashion.

 

Yes it matters. Read the report. It includes a lot that wasn't originally reported in the media. In particular, the vitriol that Incognito and his cohorts spewed about Martin's sister and mother is repulsive. It puts Martin's and Incognito's relationship in a better perspective. If you want to speak intelligently on the subject, read the entirety of it rather than cherry picking.

 

Okay, I'm listening.

I'd rather not, why don't you give me the highlights that you think are important?

Okay....so what? Incognito and "his cohorts" are terrible people, I already assumed that, how does that change anything?

Why is their relationship relevant? They could be best friends or mortal enemies and it wouldn't change a thing.

I'm not "cherry picking" I just don't see how the details of what Incognito did matter. Does it change what Martin did? No. Does it change the fact that for whatever reason the players on the Dolphins are supporting Incognito over Martin? No. Again, I don't care what Incognito did, I'm sure it was pretty rotten, but none of it excuses Martin blue falconing the entire team.

 

What should Martin have done? (Keep in mind that you are stating your opinion without knowledge of all the facts of the case)

 

There are many things he could have done that would have been better.

1) Told them to stop. I haven't heard anything about him actually confronting the people "bullying" him and asking them to cut it out.

2) Knocked Incognito out if he didn't stop when he told him to. Martin isn't some little kid, he's a HUGE adult man who at 6'5 300+lbs could knock literally anyone in the world out with one single clean punch, that sends one hell of a message. Let's stop acting like this is some little kid getting bullied by the big kid in class because that's just not the case.

3) He was clearly too cowardly for #2, so he could have just gone to his coaching staff about it, even the HC if that's the only person he thought wasn't involved, if they didn't listen or help he could always....

4)Go to his NFLPA representative about it

5) Request a trade/his release. That kind of ultimatum would let EVERYONE know that he was fed up and if he'd done that, he'd still have been able to get a job elsewhere because he wouldn't have been the problem.



ANY of those things would have been better than what he did.

 

Again...read the report. The answers to some of your suggestions are contained within it.

 

Really? So he told the entire coaching staff about it, told them to stop, told his NFLPA rep about it, knocked Incognito out, and demanded a trade/his release? Oh wow, sounds like an interesting report.

 

Quit acting like a child.

 

Thanks for your input, it really advanced the conversation.

 

Funny, since you're discussing things you have no knowledge of. Saying "Does it matter?" is not a persuasive argument. Read the damn report and then come back, that's all I'm saying. It would make whatever thoughts you have that much more credible.