Unfortunately most of the media aren't going to put Hakeem up there, because for some damn reason he isn't as widely recognized as Wilt/Kareem/Bill etc. but he absolutely belongs in the discussion.
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The general consensus is that Hakeem is the fifth best center in league which I agree with. Wilt, Kareem, bill Russell are at the top no question. The one that leapfrogged Hakeem is Shaq. Now, I know that people will argue that Hakeem dominated the finals vs Orlando and Shaq, but those are the same people that argue that the rockets woulda beat the bulls for those two titles when Jordan was out because of some regular season head to head matchups. But Shaq didn't catch his stride until he met
Continue from previous post...Shaq didn't catch his stride until he met Phil Jackson and was virtually unstoppable including vs Hakeem. So I would consider Shaq #4 on big men mt Rushmore and Hakeem at #5...which is still very impressive.
I like the idea of a separate Mount Rushmore for centers, it makes it much easier. Centers: Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Dream Everyone Else: Oscar, Magic, Bird, MJ Lebron might deserve to be up there when he retires.
Thats your opinion which which the knowledgeable fan does not agree with. But that's why it's your opinion and not mine.
Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird. I can't see Lebron or Durant ever surpassing them. Who knows though, it depends on how long their careers can last. It'd be hard for them to even surpass Shaq, who was only 2nd to Jordan and maybe Wilt in terms of peak performance, on top of the 4 championships.
MJ, Russell, Magic, Bird LeBron could take one of their spots one day, but he'll have to step his legacy game up. He's in the tier with Oscar, Wilt, Hakeem, and Shaq right now.
Personally, I would take Lebron over Kareem every day of the week. Lebron did a lot more with less than Kareem did.
Shaq and Hakeem had comparable career stats, however, Shaq had more of a post season presence and a higher PER for those on this site that love efficiency stats so much. Shaq at 26.43 and Hakeem at 23.59. Shaq had 3 titles that, according to many on this site, he carries and Kobe had nothing to do with...along with one I would consider asterisk with a note that DWade won that won on his shoulders. Hakeem has 2 titles with an asterisk that, in both, the greatest player of all time in his prime was out of the league for gambling suspension...um I mean, he was playing baseball. Yeah, yeah...Jordan was in the playoffs the second year but he wasn't really in full playing shape having just came back a month previous. Anyway, not that Shaq is hands down greater than Hakeem, I just think he gets the edge due to pure physical domination of the league and playoff presence. I may even put Tim Duncan ahead of Hakeem now that I think about it too, but they are all pretty close. Maybe so nobody gets their panties in a bunch, we should break out the Big Men Mt. Rushmore to Legends and Modern Day. Legends: George Mikan, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar Modern Day: Shaq, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, David Robinson
Kareem was one of the few players who were so dominant in their era that they had to change the rules because of him. Others included George Mikan and Wilt Chamberlain. http://www.school-for-champions.com...yers_who_caused_rule_changes.htm#.UwE4dV5H2L0
I also think Shaq should be added to this list because they changed the whole illegal defense rule and allowed zone to prevent guys like Shaq from totally dominating his defender. With this change though, it totally changed the NBA game and made the center position obsolete. Now, the NBA is a game of quick point guards and versatile power forwards. It used to be that shooting guards and small forwards would be slashers, but that went away too, they are all relegated to outside shooters. Interesting how just a few changes in the rules can impact the entire way teams play the game.
I wish people would stop this myth ... because Shaq was considered all-time great player and already dominant player in Orlando. People give Phil way too much credit, sometimes. I've seen Shaq dominate with my own eyes for a good 12-13 year stretch...I mean he consistently averaged over 25 ppg and 11 rebs, almost since he was a rookie, while his game improved every single year. Hell, if he came into league a little later with better franchise (Orlando was an expansion team, basically). He may have ended up with 7 or 8 NBA titles, instead of 4.
In Kareem's last few rings, sure. In his first two rings, Kareem averaged 26/17 and 31/12. Lebron's struggled in nearly every finals series he's been in. Last year him and Wade had just as many off nights as they did good ones. In the second game of the finals (first game Miami won), Mario freakin' Chalmers was the leading scorer. Lebron came up big in game 6 and game 7, but he struggled a lot prior to that. The thing is, he doesn't have an "unstoppable" move. He doesn't have a skyhook like Kareem, a fadeaway like Mike, or a dreamshake like Hakeem. They were able to stop him by making him shoot jumpers and that's been something he's struggled with his entire career. Peak to peak, I'd say they're neck and neck. I have them 4th/5th after Jordan, Wilt, Shaq. I'd probably still take Kareem just off the fact that Lebron can be stopped and it's been proven pretty consistently. Not every night because no great player can be stopped every night, but he's been severely hindered plenty of times. Legacy wise, it's not close in my opinion, but I have Kareem 2nd all time legacy wise. 6 championships, 6 mvps, 2 finals mvps, all time points leader, 3rd all time rebounds leader, 3rd all time blocks leader, 19x all star. And if you want to talk about "advanced" stats, he had the greatest winshare season of all time. Kareem has everything from longevity, to peak, to championships, to mvps.
He hasn't be robbed of anything. If you want to play that card, Jordan would have more in the MVP department.
Shaq was the most dominant player since wilt chamberlain physically, but he was often outsmarted by the more experienced centers like Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson. It was the mental aspect and managing his emotions that I felt Phil Jackson helped him with.
