How so? In the early 2000's, Shaq was considered the best player in the league. In the mid-2000's, it was Duncan. In the late 2000's, it was Lebron. Kobe has always been considered one of the best players in the league, but not the best.
No short cuts? If that's the case, how can you have Kobe ranked so high even though he was the 2nd best player on his team for the majority of his championships?
Kobe fans will be Kobe fans no matter what. He is probably a top 5 player in Lakers history, but those who think he's a top 5 or even top 10 player of all time are pretty ridiculous. He was a cheap imitation of Micheal Jordan, which was fun to watch, but he doesn't compare well with the real greats.
It's not hate for Kobe, but realization that Kobe is replaceable in all his championships. If you had Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan playing with both Shaq and Gasol you think they won't have 5 rings? Kobe is the best among his peers like Tmac and Iverson but he is no one compared to the true greats. He's an imitation of MJ, except he's also a ballhog, less dominant and has been babied with HOF teammates. The irony is you have Kobe fanboys here talking about no shortcuts. No shortcuts, really? Kobe won his rings with Phil Jackson and Shaq or Gasol in their primes. How's that for "no shortcuts"? The one time Kobe had to stand on his own two feet he led his team to a 0.500 record, got spanked by PHX and quit on the series.
So your telling me Tim Duncan, not Kobe, was the clear cut best player of the mid 2000's? Lmao:grin: Dude, I can't do this anymore with you
Duncan is the greatest player to ever play his position, Kobe is just a cheap imitation of the greatest SG to ever play the position. It's pretty easy to understand.
Absolutely. Look at their stats, percentages, and team success. And you should also note that Duncan anchored the Spurs' defense. Here's a better question. Why do you think Kobe was better Duncan in the mid-2000's?
See phrases like "imitation of MJ" expose you and your personal dislike for Kobe Bryant. Your quick to throw out names like Gasol, like he's a D.Wade or Scottie Pippen caliber player lol. Just stop it. Also, can't we apply the same replacement argument to LBJ? Replace LBJ w/ KD and Miami would still be champions. Ya'll keep changing the rules on Kobe just so he won't be mentioned among greats. But when you apply those same rules to guys like Lebron the entire conversation changes lol. Jordan/Pippen/Rodman (HOF/HOF/HOF) Wade/LBJ/Bosh (HOF/HOF/Allstar) Magic/Kareem/Worthy (HOF/HOF/HOF) Bird/Mchale (HOF/HOF) Kobe/Bynum????/Gasol???? (HOF/Scrub/Role player) You should be embarrassed even putting Gasol on that damn list. This argument that "Well um, Kobe had Gasol" is as stupid as they come. He played well in the finals next to Kobe and now your throwing his name around like he's Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Where exactly does Gasol fit among these HOF bigmen? Stop changing the rules
I'm guessing you meant to say "Why enter a basketball debate if you know your personal hatred for a player goes beyond basketball?" If that's what you meant to say, then I'd just tell you that I don't "hate" Kobe just because I'm pointing out that he's very overrated (as evidenced that some think he's a top 5 player all time) and that he really was just a poor man's Kobe Bryant. That's not hateful, it's just a comment based in reality. Kobe was a very good player for a very long time, but he's not a top 5 and probably not even a top 10 all time player.
Gasol is a lock for the HOF after he retires. Also, it's pointless to compare teammates across eras b/c a teammate's value is relative to his contemporaries. Sure, Jordan played with Rodman and Pippen, but did those Bulls have the best front-court in the league? Nope, they sure didn't. On the other hand, that Lakers team had a front-court of Bynum/Gasol/Odom. They don't have the name recognition of past championship front-courts, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that for the Laker's last 2 championships, they were the best front-court in the league. That's why people say he's only won with stacked teams....b/c he's had the best front-court in the league for each of his championships.
There is nothing ridiculous with putting Kobe in the top 10. The more ridiculous statement is you saying that he is PROBABLY a top 5 Laker. People that hate Kobe get just as ridiculous as people that love Kobe.
Wishful thinking. No he's not. He wasn't even the best bigman of that era, Yao was lol. Stop the embarrasment Jordan & Pippen are top 50 greatest. Dennis Rodman is regarded to some as the BEST REBOUNDER of all time. Kobe having a solid front court is relatively irrelevant when you got Scottie Pippen & Dennis Rodman. You sound silly lol NOOOOW it doesn't matter, lmao. Dude your all over the place lol. Nobody who knows basketball would replace Bynum/Gasol/Odom over Pippen/Rodman. They wouldn't even do that with Wade/Bosh. It matters because YOU keep bringing up all the "help" Kobe allegedly had, but when we look at the "help" MJ, LBJ, Bird & Magic had, we come to realize Kobe did it with significantly less talent. Which is my only point
Gasol is a lock for the HOF. There's no debate. Even the folks at lakersground admit this. His resume is too extensive for him to be denied. Are you denying that Kobe has always had the best front-court in the league for each of his titles?
Do you think the Kings win the title if they swapped Peja for Kobe. I'm really not trying to prove something by asking I'm just curious what you think. And if you think it's too far off topic just ignore it lol
Durant's having a top-5 or 10 peak of all time now. He's substantially better than Kobe's ever been. Last year's Durant was on par with peak Kobe. If you mean extended prime, obviously Kobe, since Durant hasn't had as many years of play yet.
Until Durant wins a championship, this conversation is a bit moot. To say that Kobe only won his first three-peat because of Shaq, I'd say that's a bit ignorant and just coming from a Laker hater or a Kobe hater. Shaq doesn't win any rings without Kobe...especially with his free throws being a liability in the 4th quarter. Saying Durant is better than Kobe is like saying that Dan Marino was a better QB than Joe Montana. Yes, Marino put up big numbers, but until he wins a championship, it's all contributing to wasted seasons.
