I'm already winning the argument. That Laker team was atroctious. That Orlando team was terrible too, but what you don't want to address is the difference is conferences. Having a above .500 record in the WESTERN CONFERENCE w/ the worst team in the NBA is an accomplishment. Are you arguing that there is no talent gap in the conferences now? I hope not. Besides, Tmac was playing at astronomical levels those years. He deserves credit taking that team to the playoffs. I'm not taking credit away from Tmac because I like him. But don't act like Kobe's had it so good, when he's actually had it harder anybody including MJ, LBJ AND KD. We can compare rosters all day
Durant hasn't really hit his prime, yet, while he's started out on bottom feeder. Morever, he's more of pf/sf, instead of SG. It's kind of unfair to both players to compare them at this stage. Kobe really wasn't a prime go-to player until Shaq left, circa 04-05. Basically, year 9 for Kobe, who already had 3 titles at that point and played on a premier team. Unlike Durant, he was drafted to a cellar-dwellar, who has more or less turned that team into a perennial championship-bound team. You are also comparing a 6,9-6,10 forward (drafted in 07) to 6,6 SG drafted in 96. I almost think Lebron vs. Kobe arguments aren't really consequential, nor are the MJ vs. Kobe.
This "Durant's not hit his prime" angle is silly too. I mean how much better can he get? 35 PER (never been done)? 70 TS% (never been done by a high usage player)? At 31 PER, he's having the 12th best individual season ever by anyone since PER could be calculated (only people named Wilt, Lebron, and Jordan have had better seasons than he is having now) and leading his team to the best record in the NBA while being in one of the toughest conferences ever. Just because he's only 25 doesn't mean he automatically gets better, he's already at an all-time level production. Jordan, Lebron, Wilt all excelled at an all-time level before they were 25. In fact, because of how ridiculous he is this season, the question is not how much better can he get, but rather how many times can he replicate this kind of season for the rest of his career. Lebron replicated it over 6 or 7 times and is in the discussion for the greatest ever. Jordan and Wilt all have done it multiple times over. Can he do the same? Or will this be a one hit wonder fluke season like T-Mac's 02-03?
Sorry, but you're not winning anything. In fact, you've already lost. The Orlando team was clearly worse than the Lakers. Sure, the Western Conference was more difficult than the Eastern Conference, but who cares? That wasn't part of your original argument nor is it relevant to your original argument. That's what's called a "strawman argument."
Grant Hill played like 10 games shawn Kemp and Horace Grant were like basically dead Drew Gooden was a rookie You've never watched half of those players play Nice try though, don't try to pretend you even watched basketball in 2003
I disagree, because most players don't peak at 25, and are still somewhat learning the game. You could argue that only over the last couple of years that players, like LeBron and Durant have really expanded their games. Lebron for instance, used to be a terrible 3 point shooter; not much of back to basket player; and below average jumpshooter. He's improved in all three areas, and that wasn't the case at 25. Even, if Durant is in or entering his prime, we can all suspect that without injury or an out of the ordinary occurance that his prime is hardly finished, unlike Kobe's. Kobe is more of finished product, while KD we won't know for couple of more years.
He also left out Pat Garrity who played the 2nd most minutes behind T-Mac that year and had the second most win shares. PAT GARRITY.
Agreed 100% Durant is in his prime right now. The guy is playing at an insane level how is he not in his prime? If he doesn't have an injury he will be in his prime for a very long time. People act like a prime is only 2 or 3 years.
Strawman argument? Um ok, lmao. Explain to me exactly how Tmac's Orlando team was CLEARLY worse than the 2006 Lakers? I'm interested
'06 Lakers were 7th in the league in rebounds!!! They had a good interior. They also had Phil Jackson. Kobe making the playoffs is closer to a given than an achievement.
Look at the players and their stats on each team. It should be pretty obvious to any objective person.
Nah, but Kobe seems to. That's why he shoots less efficiently from the field, often shoots his teams out of games, and many players don't want to play with him.
Here's the career arc for the players in question. (Kobe shouldn't really be in this group of players but for the sake of OP). Jordan is missing the two years he played baseball: All-time great players hit their high marks early and sustain for the rest of their careers.
Lakers were 7th in rebounding in '06. Kobe making the playoffs is closer to a given than an achievement. Kobe apologist don't give any credit to Phil Jackson during arguments like this either. I wonder why.
'06 Lakers were 7th in the league in rebounds!!! They had a good interior. They also had Phil Jackson. Kobe making the playoffs is closer to a given than an achievement.
I don't like PER too much, but its always nice when it matches the eye test and what you expect from what you have seen. Nice post kevC.
That's the problem, Kevin Durant is only 25, and has only played about roughly 6-7 seasons. He could come out and average over 34 ppg for the next four seasons or fall back to 25 ppg. If he improves from this year in such succession, he techinically would only be at the beginning of his best years. Because, I'm of the mind set that he could actually become a better player and even more efficient scorer, while averaging more points.
I understand, but how much more efficient and how much better realistically? It HAS to be marginal at best because of where he already is. There is no historical precedent of a player getting better than at the level that Durant is already at. More efficient than a 65 TS% and 31 PER? If you think he's going to improve even more and post the highest PER ever, you're basically saying you believe Kevin Durant will be the greatest player ever, which of course, could happen, but not likely.
