Not that last night's game really matters but it's getting hard to see Lebron not in the top 5 all time at worst.
Um... they call Lebron and George as the best 2 way players in the league. They call MJ and Hakeem as the 2 best 2-way players in history of the league. No, it's a rare compliment when they call you a 2-way player. "LImited offense" is called a "defensive specialist." . Again, let's see him take on the defensive responsibilities night in and night out consistently for him to build up that reputation. It took Lebron until his 5th year in the league to earn that reputation. It took Kobe 3-4 years. Takes time, b/c it takes the willingness to guard the best defensive player night in and night out, which takes a huge toll on your body throughout the season going into the playoffs. Durant did it guarding Melo full time last week. He needs to do that more consistently. And he has that ability. But as of right now, Durant has ZERO defensive selections. Do not know if serious. For a 6-7 year stretch in his prime, Kobe was lauded by GM's poll as a top 2-3 perimeter defender in this league. And he has a bunch of all-nba 1st team defense (last 4-5 years have been based on rep only though).
I think you are overrating Kobe's actual defensive impact. Yes, he was a better defender, but how much does it really matter when you have to get a guy to be the main wing defender every night regardless (see Ariza or Artest)? Kobe has never had to shoulder the burden of locking dudes down for his teams to win. Not on a consistent basis. Name one title run where Kobe's defense made a significant difference in a series.
We're talking about Lamar Odom right now, isnt that what you wanted? Anyways, your a typical Kobe hater. You dislike Kobe Bryant to the point that you'll discredit ANYTHING he has done by sayin stupid ish like, "Well um, he had Shaq", "Um but, Kobe needed Pau", "Ehh, but he had Bynum". The more we dissect these stupid comments the more we see that your hatred for Kobe extends past basketball and into some creepy personal stuff Kobe's only mistake is he can be overly competitive, which haters like yourself & others LOVE to use against him. But unlike LBJ, Kobe remained great without taking any shortcuts. How many superstars who'd won 3 rings, would've stayed on a team rebuilding w/ Kwame Brown, Stanislav Medvedenko, Laron Profit, L.O., & Smush Parker lol. That team was one of the worst assembled teams in nba history. Yet ppl like Kobe haters blame Kobe for not winning a championship with this team. Um ok My only request is if your going to use the whole "Kobe played with great players" asterick, apply this to MJ, LBJ, Magic, Bird and anybody else who played with great players. Thank you
Actually I wanted to know why you kept dismissing him when you mentioned those teams. Hence me constantly asking the question, again and again. So, why? I've never faulted Kobe for winning with Shaq. Saying who the primary players on those teams were is not discrediting Bryant. It's the truth. Everyone needs help to win. I've never faulted Kobe for needing help. I've called out fanboys for acting as if he won without it. Superstars that can't force their owner to trade them to Pluto, which is what Kobe tried to do when he was forced to play with those players. A team with Lamar Odom as the #2 option is not one of the worst assembled teams in NBA history. Maybe so if you continue to act like he wasn't on the team. Practically every player who won titles did so with a great supporting cast (or some were in the supporting cast, ie Kobe for his first 3 titles). If someone else tries to discredit the help MJ, LBJ, Magic or Bird had by conveniently ignoring the best supporting players on their teams then I will quetsion them about it as well.
Not dismissing Odom. Put his name in there too!!! Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Stanislav Medvedenko, Ronny Turiaf, Sasha Vujacic, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm & Aaron McKie. I challenge you post any playoff roster in the history of the NBA worst than this one. The only other primary player besides Shaq, was Kobe. They needed each other. Sidekicks don't finish games I agree 100% I don't think he was ever forced. He could've very well requested a trade or sat out like Asik. He pouted but eventually sucked it up and played Absolutely incorrect. Take Kobe off that team, it wins no more than 15-17 games in the regular season with Odom. Again, I challenge you to post a playoff roster worse than Kobe's in 06. Again, a supporting cast member can not be the primary ball handler & closer on a championship team. Shaq & Kobe were equal partners in leading that team. Shaq dominated inside. Kobe made plays off the dribble. Horry, Fisher & Shaw spot up on the 3pt line. Supporting cast member are easily replaceable.
Someone has already posted the Magic roster that T-Mac drug to the playoffs. Once you stop ignoring Odom (which you still have yet to answer why you kept leaving him off), then the roster doesn't look worse than that one. Sure they do. Manu finished plenty of games for the Spurs. Kobe has acknowledged that he was not the primary player on those teams so there is no point debating whether he was or not. And saying he was is not discrediting him. He did request a trade! He sucked it up and played when the team made it clear they would not trade him. Any talk revolving around him deciding to stay on a team with scrub teammates is hogwash. Kobe has acknowledged that he put the pressure on LA to not waste his prime years and bring in talent. Your point is false. Please provide some support to show that Kobe closed more games than Shaq. No, they weren't. Kobe says Shaq was the primary player. Was he lying?
I had to stop reading after the first couple pages because the Kobe hate is ridiculous. Kobe was a complete stud and arguably the 2nd best SG in the history of the game. Im not a fan of his, but I definitely respect the hell out of what he brings to the court. Durant is a stud too, but too early to even put him in any category near Kobe.
Not by taking on the responsibility of guarding the best player each night. What seasons did he do that? I agree that Kobe was a great defender, but let's not act like he was called upon to go lock guys down every night. It's beyond dumb to give your primary scorer that much defensive responsibility.
Minus Kobe & Tmac Darrell Armstrong>Smush Parker Grant Hill>Lamar Odom Shawn Kemp>Kwame Brown Drew Gooden>Brian Cook Gordan Giricek >Sasha Vujacic Jacque Vaughn>Aaron McKie Horace Grant>Stanislav Medvedenko Ryan Humphrey=Chris Mihm Nice try, not even CLOSE
Grant Hill played only 29 regular season games and missed all of the playoffs. Giricek played 27 games that season. Drew Gooden played 19 games. Horace Grant played 5. You're not going to win this argument.
Huh? Did you realize he was talking about the 2003 Orlando Magic? Please explain how 29 games of Grant Hill in 2003 > Lamar Odom? Please explain how Kemp giving you 7/6 on 42% is better than Kwame Brown? LMAO
Statements like " I rmember how bad he burned us!" Or "Kobe was just sick!" or even "Took trash to the playoffs!" ,Are not objective. Again, the Kobe crowd can't provide a single answer for substantiating the claim of a team picking him in his prime over durant. I like Kobe more too, more of a 2 guard type of guy but I would not let that cloud my judgement over the length and skill durant provides. Something pretty evident by thunders dominance.
Bynum with limited minutes is still a major plus. As long as there's equal production, whomever you replace with Bynum would still be a major plus. LA had a decent interior overall with three 7-footers Brown/Mihm/Odom... they ranked 7th in rebounding. Lakers were also top 10 fewest to's... Smush had a 2/1 ast-to in '06. Phil Jackson wasn't on the roster, but definitely played his role. Worst playoff roster ever is not a good argument.
3 scoring titles (Bryant 2x) and 50/40/90 (never) say otherwise. Durant might catch Kobe in MVPs this season also. I respect Kobe too, he's an all-time great, but saying Durant is nowhere near him is ridiculous. You stopped reading the first 2 pages because the truth hurt.
