Kobe NEVER took a team as bad as that Cavs team to the Finals. Kobe NEVER will take a team as bad as that Cavs team to the Finals. Just thought I'd point that out.
dont avoid the question kid, tell me how exactly Tmac's 2002 team that finished with 2 games above .500 was "less Trash" than what Kobe had. And tell me what's so great about those point Kobe put up that Tmac didn't do with 32/6/5 on same efficiency. Are you saying Tmac wasn't tripled teamed just like Kobe did. And don't spew the bullshet about Durant and Lebron can never do because Tmac sure did carry trash teams just like Kobe did and get eliminated in the first round as well, so don't act like Kobe did anything special those years. and I never said Gasol was the real leader for that team. Dirk carried his team to a chip, so did Hakeem. Kobe was not more impactful than his team mates therefore he didn't carry ****.
Couple of questions/comments: 1) KD isn't a SG, so I'm not really understanding the argument. KD does more to lead his team, make teammates better, and has a higher ceiling than Kobe. 2) Where was my hate exactly? I said look up the stats on Kobe and they are much closer to chucker, those are facts. Since you don't want to look: Kobe Bryant career Finals statistics 24.7 PPG 5.2 RPG 5.0 APG 1.75 SPG 0.89 BPG 323-784 FG 41.1% 213-248 85.8% FT http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/index.php?topic=56895.0 He makes roughly 1 point per shot, which is definitely closer to chucker level. His defense has always been good when he feels like playing it. Kobe is a GREAT player, but ESPN's hype machine definitely made him out to be better than he is. He has a hell of a solid long career, but 1 on 1 in a prime vs prime battle, I'd take a lot of guys above him. In a longevity battle of solid production, probably only Kareem did a better job.
Kwame Brown (Trash) Chris Mihm (Trash) Brian Cook (Trash) Aaron Mckie (Trash) Jim Jackson (Trash) Stanislav Medvedenko (Trash) Luke Walton (Trash) Ronny Turiaf (Trash) You my friend, are sadly mistaken
I don't disagree with that. But Lebron is in his prime right now and KD is playing at a higher level than him at 25. That speaks quite a lot on KD's talent level.
I'm that guy. Look at the stats (can't find the other title year): http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2009/nba_finals_stats.html I can't find the other one, but Gasol was DOMINANT. He didn't get enough shots for how good he was. Article on it for good measure: http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2010/6/19/pau-gasol-the-real-finals-mvp.html Bynum I think I remember being pretty good the other year, but that could be mistaken memory.
The point is he didn't take them to the finals. Lebron carried trash teams to the Finals while Kobe would have mediocre records and get knocked out of the first round. Glad this discussion is starting to get interesting...all the folks on the first page kept yapping about prime this and prime that.
Lebron at age 25 was actually very much on par, if not better than KD is right now. Lebron has led the league in PER every year since age 23 till this year when KD overtook him. Lebron at age 24 had a 31.7 PER and a 31.1 PER at age 25 while KD boasts a 30.9 PER this year. To be honest, I think Lebron is holding back a little this year coming off of two championships to conserve himself for a chance at a threepeat. I can't wait to see them in the playoffs.
Gasol was a beast but I still wouldn't call Kobe his sidekick in either year but I am open to debating that. Bynum is insulting to me though because he was never a major contributor in the finals
So, this morphed into a Kobe vs Lebron discussion. nice! btw: anyone who says Lebron took trash to the finals as a debating tactic is not allowed to ever criticize the Eastern Conference for sucking every year.
I have rarely seen anyone trivialize Kobe's contributions to that of a role player during the first 3-peat.
That Cleveland team wasn't truly trash though. Mo Williams is NOT Smush Paker trash, and Big Z was NEVER Kwame level trash. FYI, Big Z was actually an allstar. Plus your talking about the EASTERN CONFERENCE. The ONLY team he beat during that run was a CLEARLY washed up Detroit team (in which he won on a travel that wasn't called). Other than that I can't remember any of the great teams Clevelant went through. Stop trying to rewrite history
Well Kobe fans are not allowed to bring up his 2 game above .500 without shaq and Gasol as some sort of big accomplishment, because it really wasn't.
Never said anything about finals. But please reference Eastern conference vs Western Conference talent gap. Thank you
I love how Kobe supporters always forget to mention Lamar Odom on those teams. The same Lamar Odom that avg 15, 9, 6, 1, 1 in 2006 and 16, 10, 5, 1 in 2007. Those numbers went up to 19, 11, 5, 1 and 19, 13, 2, 1 in the postseason. Why do folks always mention Kwame or Parker, but never him? Durant can't drag a team to the playoffs with Lamar Odom and scrubs? And LA had the luxury of bringing this guy off the bench when they won titles in 09 and 10. Yet folks act like Kobe had limited help.
This is a whole new debate!!! Kobe's situation sounded a lot like T-Mac!!! Soooo, is it fair to say T-Mac was the same as Kobe, outside of playing with Shaq, Lamar Odom, and Pau Gasol?
No, Tmac was too injury prone to do anything. Plus he never had the work ethics of Kobe so he relied too much on his physical ability. That said, If Tmac maintained his prime streak without getting injured all the time and if he played with shaq and Gasol, he would be regarded the same as Kobe, to bad he was made of glass
