Where would you rank Manu Ginobili in the list of all time SG's?

I agree with xRAPM. Manu's impact while on the court was amazing. And he stepped up in the playoffs. The only real knock on him is the minutes he played compared to Kobe and Wade. Great stuff like usual.

 

Why do you guys give him extra credit for a per possession basis. Its like crediting a starting pitcher for going 5 innings while others are expected to go 7 or 8.

It's not T-Mac and Carters fault that they never got to come out, and were expected to carry their teams to wins.

Certainly not top 10
Maybe top 15 at best, and that's if you consider some guys SF's

 

Upon Review I have him at 16

1.Michael Jordan
2.Jerry West
3.Kobe Bryant
4.Clyde Dexler
5.George Gervin
6.Vince Carter
7.Dwayne Wade
8.Reggie Miller
9.Dominique Wilkins
10.Tracy McGrady
11.Gail Goodrich
12.Ray Allen
13.Joe Dumars
14.Allen Iverson
15.Hal Greer
16.Manu Ginobilli

Also considered Earl Monroe, Mitch Richmond


I consider Adrian Dantley, Julius Erving, Glen Rice and Rick Barry SF's

 

You can bold it all you want but it doesn't really help your argument. When you are ranking a player for their career, you can't just go by their peak season because plenty of players have had great, but short, peaks. Harden may very well turn out to be an HOFer (Manu certainly is) but he's nowhere near there right now, so putting him above Manu on the all-time rankings is quite premature.

It is not as if Manu is some role-player like Horry on the Lakers. This is a guy who was a key option on championship teams, similar to someone like McHale or Worthy. Moreover, his numbers are very favorable-- a career PER of 21.5 and a playoff PER of 19.8, which is better than most guys on your list. To give you an idea, Vinnie Johnson had a career PER of 15.2/15.8 which isn't even close. Yeah, Manu hasn't played as many minutes as some of the others but he has been remarkably efficient and this has led to wins.

I would personally rank him in the top-10.

 

Dominique Wilkins was also a SF, wasn't he?

 

Think Kevin Mchale. And stop hating.

 

Was Kevin McHale a better 6th man than Havlicek? not sure.

Speaking of which, why is Havlicek missing from every list here? He's really a SG. Is it because he was so versatile the Celtics went 3 guards often with Sam Jones and Havlicek, then Don Chaney and Havlicek, so boxscores started listing Havlicek as a 6'5 SF, since he wasn't the starter?

 

It's funny watching these kids post their lists from their searches on stat engines.

btw: do you trust xRAMP? I thought we've all thoroughly debunked that for such things as not listing Tony Parker as a Top 10 PG in 2014.

 

I trust it as much as any other single player rating stat that's out there. I don't personally agree with every rating, though I would expect it to be more accurate for rating a player over a stretch of several seasons versus just 1.

 

If I had to win a game I would take Manu over of those two players. Just think his overall impact including playmaking and defense is larger.

 

Oh I'm sorry grandpa, how good we're George Mikan and Dolph Schayes anyhow, we're they really as good as their numbers suggest, or were they stat padders. Highlights and stats are all some of us have to go on.

I think that xRAMP list is fairly accurate,it doesn't include some of T-Mac,Carter, and Allens best years, so their numbers I imagine would be much better. He also got to play all out because he played limited minutes, a luxury the other guys weren't afforded.

I would have him 7th among that group, although you could make an argument for him over Allen, and I did get to watch all of these guys.

 

It's easy to make plays when you play with the best PF of all time your whole career. It also helps when you have Frenchie as a teammate. Furthermore, who was drawing up those plays? Who's the savage disciplinarian that preached defense and had no qualms about chewing out his best players even if they're veterans? Yeah.. His coach is also one of the top 5 of all time.

Reggie Miller and Ray Allen are both better than Manu. Shouldn't even be a question.

 

do u realize he also had a career before coming to nba right? He was the best player in europe ( euroleague mvp and title) and won an olimpic gold medal with his national team. So its not all about duncan and parker.
Besides, Parker has been at his best this last 2 years, but for the majority of their careers, manu was considered way better and more important than parker.

 

That's the whole point of xRAPM. To isolate what the player did in terms of context. That's why Nic Collison who regularly reads the league in raw plus/minus doesn't dominate xRAPM as well.

Manu was a better a playmaker for sure, better defender, worse shooter obviously but still quite good. Manu could truly run an offense as a PG. He's also one of the most clutch playoff performers so Ray doesn't have an advantage there either.

 

Would he be a top 5 SG 10 years ago, though. Probably not. The position is weak at the moment.

I'd have McGrady ahead of Manu, sure, and I'd have him comfortably ahead of Harden as well. Harden is going to have that big minutes argument on his side but Manu in my view was an all around better player in his prime.

In general, your list has Stackhouse, Iguodala, Eddie Jones and a bunch of other weird names ahead of Manu. I can understand why someone would argue Harden vs. Manu, since both sides have arguments, but Iguodala and those other names.. it's pretty extreme.

 

i can see what you mean. And yes i would take petrovic over manu if he didnt died too. I just dont like when people do the whole dropping so and so player on so and so team to prove whose better. You can really do that for any player. Kobe is the second best shooting guard of all time but he also had shaq for his 3 rings. If you put any of the top tier guys like allen or miller, you could say they would have won 3 too...it goes both ways. And even Shaq left, kobe had gasol, arguably the top 3 big man at the time.

I think manu is a "role player" that is in a different category than anyone else. And trust me, i live in nyc and was/is a knick fan so i know(grrrrrrr....) how good reggie miller was and i still think manu and miller can be in the same conversation. For the record, i dont think manu is top 10 but i def think he is top 20, which is a far cry from vinnie johnson and especially guys like horry and kerr.

 

1. Vassilis Spanoulis
2. Manu Ginobili
3. Michael Jordan

 

1. Prime Gallinari
2. Non Prime Gallinari
3. Fetus Gallinari
4. MJ

 

Dude, we are laughing at how you ended up with Dominique Wilkens on your list of SGs.