Tell that to the self proclaimed experts who have consistently tried to position their opinions as fact. Some of them still can't move on to the next phase of this and hang on to snippets from today's court proceedings to try to justify their misguided belief of how the judge would rule. The judge said it belongs in this court despite these what these experts adamantly wanted others to believe. The Judge said in I think was the first hearing that the matter might be best served in bankruptcy court but the experts ignored that when I pointed it out.
It took 4 months just to get the chapter 11 stuff figured out. And you think that removing crane's veto power, which is more of a drastic change to the company structure than simply allowing it to go bankrupt, won't really take that long? You get mad at people for claiming to know what is going to happen and stating it as fact... And you spew this?
That's my off the cuff opinion based on comments from David Barron's tweets as an observer at the court hearing. Judge Isgur basically implied that Crane can't be impartial which is also the reason I made comments about Crane not living up to his responsibilities as a partner in the Network. It's also been reported that Judge Isgur felt unanimous consent of all parties was a dumb idea. That's not spewing. I admit not very long was a poor choice of words and will likely be proven to be wrong. But I do feel that the process would be much quicker without Crane looking out for only his own interest. If Crane has to limp along without a full carriage deal this upcoming season, it would serve him right since the only deal he has spoken about since his silly boast to the Judge of being in the overnight business as a reason for him to be able to get something done was hi yapping about this self serving MLB deal recently. I'm not mad anyone. It wasn't that tough to figure out how the Judge was going to rule if you paid close attention to comments attributed to him in the past. While I appreciated the insight of some posters with a legal background regarding the procedural process, I understood their predictions of the outcome quite often lead by flashing their credentials were just a guess like mine and everyone elses. That's pretty damn evident today. Their inability to look past their fondness for the team didn't allow them to see the obvious.
I think you are confusing people wanting to see their teams on TV with people having blind love for Crane and the Astros. I also think that your blind hatred for Crane doesn't allow you to see the whole picture, much in the same way your accusations about the "Astros Homers" not being able to "see the obvious". I've supported Crane this whole time because if he had succeeded and gotten the case thrown out, there was a better chance the teams would be on TV soon. Since that hasn't happened, it'll be even longer until they get on TV which is all I really care about. I think he's operated in the best interest of his team and his business, but not in the best interest of the fans (short term). I hate it, but I can understand why he's done it. Has Crane done you wrong at some point in your life to make you despise him so much? Did you work for one of his companies and get fired or something?
The thing that I think people are forgetting in all this is the fact that the very beginning of this venture was doomed from the get-go. We are expected to believe that every involved entity (Astros, Rockets & Comcast) somehow 'forgot' or just 'didn't take into consideration' the fact that every service provider was STILL OBLIGATED TO PAY FOR FOX SPORTS, which was the entity that both the Astros and Rockets were already on. In other words, everyone involved in the CSN entity just erroneously assumed two things: 1) that the service providers would simply add their channel without objection, and 2) that said service providers would add the new channel at an outrageously high price. Now I am not a lawyer, I am not a TV executive, I am not a sports team owner, I am not a multi-millionaire. But I do have a fair degree of common sense. And it was clear from the beginning, at least to ME, that this was going to be a problem, because the providers already have to deal with push-back from customers at every turn for every penny of price increase. This left the providers with a choice: raise prices, or lower profits. Either way, they lose. So, given the lose-lose proposition, what was the value? A new sports network focused primarily on a historically-bad baseball team? And a pro basketball team starring the likes of Kevin Martin and Sam Dalembert? (or whoever). The point is, they WAY over-valued their product, way over what the market would bear. It was clear that the price had to come down. It was clear that the providers were willing to *negotiate* with CSNH in order to find a price both sides would live with. And it became clear that CSNH (ie Crane) was not willing to budge even one cent from what everyone could see was a ridiculous asking price. This, this is what I have never allowed myself to forget. CSNH either engaged in unbelievable stupidity, gross incompetence, or deliberate malfeasance. This is in combination with the Astros and Rockets engaging in arrogance, greed and incompetence. So it seems to me to be a combination of all of the above. Given Comcast's history of unscrupulous behavior, I would have zero problem believing that they knew this would happen, and silently smiled and lured Crane and Alexander into the net with the ultimate goal of swiping the Astros' broadcast rights for pennies on the dollar. And Crane & Alexander blithely accepting the deal while whistling past the graveyard of the very obvious fact that there was NO WAY the providers were going to pay for an entire additional channel while still paying for Fox Sports, that smacks of greed and incompetence. And then add in the breathtakingly insulting marketing efforts driven by crane, and you can add arrogance in there as well. And strangely, we the people, the customers who will end up paying for all of this, for some reason we just don't warm up to greed, arrogance and incompetence. And so we failed to just roll over and either switch to Comcast or browbeat our providers into submission. And now all three sides are fighting over control of an entity that isn't GOING to be picked up by the providers at least until the Fox deal runs out - and that might not EVER run out! It seems to me that had Crane/McLane and Alexander wanted to start up their own new network, they should have taken more care, and made sure that the providers were on board BEFORE jumping in the deep end. So I don't have any sympathy for any of them. It looks now like Crane finally realized that Comcast is not the best company to be in bed with, and that they are trying to abscond with his broadcast rights, and he wants out. Fine. But for some reason he still harbors this belief that he is somehow magically entitled to the fairy-tale promises of per-subscriber fees he was inappropriately promised by Comcast. The. PRICE. IS. TOO. HIGH. PERIOD. And until he gets that through his head, he is going to continue to fail and continue to hold every fan in the area hostage. Alexander, as at-fault as he also was in getting into the mess in the first place, at least has the common sense to understand that the original numbers are not going to work. This is why I place most of my ire on Crane. He should have known better then, and he should know better now. I believe that had CSNH actually been willing to negotiate price in good faith with the providers, this could have been settled a long time ago. But Crane's stubborn insistence on refusing to accept even one penny less than originally promised is what has scuttled this entire thing. Now, I know that I am probably wrong on the actual details. As I said, I am not a lawyer, nor am I privy to the contractual details. But the phrase 'perception is reality' exists for a reason. If the things I have said above, which reflect my opinions based solely upon what I have seen over the last couple of years, are wrong, NONE of the involved entities have made any effort publicly to set the record straight. Which is pretty telling in itself, if you ask me.
I'm with you on a lot of that Nero. A lot of it. Blame is to be laid EVERYWHERE. However, I do think Comcast was the partner who had the best knowledge of the market and what it would bear...and I don't think the Rockets or Astros made projections on subscriber fees outside of what they were told by Comcast. I think Comcast overpromised. Is that fraud? Is that negligent misrepresentation? I don't know. Devil's in the details and that's for 12 Wal-Mart shoppers to figure out. The only evidence we have of ANY offer presented AT ALL is an offer that, if accepted, would mean massive losses for at least 10 years. Not much to work with there. The Astros tried their hand at lead negotiator: nothing. The Rockets tried their hand at lead negotiator: nothing. I agree with you that it was broken to begin with. And for that reason, I don't get the sense behind reorganization at this point. We ended up with probably the most milk-toast result we could have ended up with. A reorganization with no trustee/examiner. A trustee would have forced some tough issues. A dismissal would have resulted in the Astros finding a new partner, and the Rockets following suit. I think both of those were more likely to lead to a quick resolution than this approach. We're left now with a reorganization and some issues ripe for appeal. But I certainly acknowledge that Judge Isgur has forgotten more bankruptcy law than I'll ever know. I hope he has a speedy plan in place to force some resolution; I'm just not sure that there's anything worth saving (and that's not a comment on the quality of programming).
No, I am not confusing anything here. If you are simply just worried about the games being on TV quick then you'd wanted Crane to agree to the deals out in front of him, wouldn't you? CSN H is his business too and Crane hasn't operated in it's best interests. The Judge recognized that too. Crane will have caused many Rockets Fans to miss 2 seasons of televised games and at the same time put the ****tiest Astros team ever on the field. That's enough to not like him.
Hi guys, First post here, but I've been lurking on the Astros subforum for months now. I'm on about 3-4 different Astros boards, but this one seems to get the most frequent discussion. Didn't see if anyone had posted these tweets from John Royal of Houston Press this morning. Found them quite interesting.
Not at the expense of helping the team be competitive in the future; no. I'm not sure why you think Crane refusing deals that bleed money isn't operating CSN-H in it's best interests. To me, the TV debacle and tearing the team down are two separate issues. The team needed to be torn down to start building it back up, which Luhnow is doing a great job of, IMO. It's just a perfect storm of mess right now because both events are happening at the same time.
I think he's confused this thread for the "who can be the biggest dick" thread. I will give him credit for winning that thread wherever it is, though.
Maybe one day I'll win a few Internet arguments, but I don't think I'll ever touch Master Granville in the win column.
He could care less about the Astros, he just wants everyone to know that Crane is the devil and that he is the smartest person on the board Lets start a Granville is the king thread, and everyone can use that thread to piss on each other, and this one could be for csn discussion
Surprising but not surprising. Astros want the buyout. Rockets don't want them to leave unless they get the same level buyout. Comcast doesn't value the rockets brand at the same level, or they know that the rockets aren't threatening to leave with the same gusto, so they decide to play hardball with them. Three dysfunctional parties all put together into a dysfunctional relationship.
