Atheist: If your children believe in God, does it not effect you?

A little smug at the end, but I've always liked this response to the "What if you're wrong?" question.

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I am sure that there are Christians more knowledgeable but I was speaking in general terms. I was raised in a private catholic school for ten years which means ten years of catechism. I had a better understanding of what the bible really was after reading it on my own in 2 yrs than all that catechism combined.

The number of atheists (by percentage) who are a lot more knowledgeable about the bible far out number the Christians so the claim is not just a belief, but is actually backed up with facts.

 

The problem is that people assume that all Christians are similar and all atheist are similar. Which is just not the case, I have met many misinformed Christians, and also many misinformed Atheists.

One of my best friends is devout Christian, we have many nice discussions about religions and our views on life. However there are many Christians and atheists which who i would never have these conversations because they are either close minded or just misinformed.

My daughter will go to a Christian school, just like I did when i was young. I want her to know what Christianity is about (and preferably she will learn about all major religions). She will then be able to decide for herself if she believes in a god (or gods) and which. I will support her whatever she decides. I will also read up on whatever religion she chooses, not because I think that will make me believe that religion (I believe believing in a god is something you do or just don't logic or knowledge about a specific religion has nothing to do with it), but because it is important to her, and I would want to know about it.

I want my daughter to be happy, believing in a god gives her that happiness good for her, if not believing in a god (like me) gives her happiness also good for her.

 

I'm a good person because I want to be. Not out of concern for Heaven and Hell.

The worst thing that could happen is that I could waste thousands of hours worshiping for no reason, get swindled out of thousands of dollars on an annual basis, and create a larger carbon imprint on the world by driving to church every week.

What if there is a Heaven, but Christianity is wrong? There are several religions.

Personally, I want no part of a Heaven ran by a mass murderer, who would let his own child be brutally murdered. I also want no part of a Heaven in which good people are denied passage just because of their religious beliefs.

 

Good post. I agree 100%. I hate it when people question the morality of people who are not religious. I can have high moral standards, and I do not need fear of a deity to keep me to my standards. I expect that the reason most religious people do not kill is not only because they think god doesnt want them to. I expect that they also think for themselves.

Also If i read the old testament, I question the morality of the christian God. I cannot worship a god who does those things (especially the story of Job is terrible). Ofcourse there are many examples of terrible things that happen in todays world and I cannot worship a god who condones that. Luckely I do not believe in a god so I do not have to worry about a amoral god.

 

So if your child becomes a Muslim and believes the only way to heaven is through Allah, will you spend every one of your remaining days trying to understand and believe in his/her religion? What about if your child becomes a Scientologist? Will you set aside your Christianity and devote your life to trying to do whatever they believe gets you into heaven?

If you're wrong then you'll surely wish you could do it all over again when its said and done.

 

And if you're wrong would you wish you could do it again?

I have nothing against your belief but the premise behind your argument is inherently flawed and is only dependent upon the apriori assumption that you are right. Now that is faith but that isn't a logical argument. Just playing the odds based upon what potential possibilities of faith and non-faith views odds are overwhelming that you are wrong.

 

So you want us to start believing in a god (even tough we do not), just because that might get us into heaven?

I really do not understand the logic of believing in a god because you might go to heaven. You either believe in an all powerful deity or you don't. You cannot start believing because that might get you into heaven.

I do not want to die, and i certainly do not want my children to die, but that does not influence me believing in a god or not. Anybody who says it does influence them does not trully believe in a god and are just playing the odds.

 

You started out with the worst that could happen is that I could be a better person, which just isn't true. The worst that could happen is it could negatively impact our lives. It could be negatively affecting us now. Who knows what positive could come from channeling our resources elsewhere?

Leaving a carbon footprint has nothing do with a reason not to believe. Neither is time or money. But it would be waste as a result of trying to belief if it did not result in the very unlikely outcome of Heaven, especially when I don't wan to be a part of an all Christian Heaven, having known remarkable people that are Hindu, Muslim, & Atheist. Jesus died for your sins. All of them except non-belief apparently.

I've been to several churches in my life. Not one has offered me a money back guarantee. At the same time they have never required a donation, and they vary greatly in the emphasis they put on you opening your pocket.

You are basing everything on your own Christian beliefs. I would chose not to join the kingdom of the God shown in the bible. If Christianity holds true, and Heaven is everything it is made to be, and my children are believers, why would I not be there for them? If you went to Heaven, and your children went to Hell, do you think you would be forced live eternity with your children suffering? Some Heaven...

 

I'm not going to question whether more atheists have more textual knowledge of the Bible than Christian but I am always bothered by this line of argument. Religion is about faith and if you don't have the faith can you ever truly understand what the text is about?

Often in these debates it ends up sounding like atheists / non-believers end up clubbing the religious with claiming to know more about the religion than believers do. While they may know more about the facts religion isn't actually about facts but about belief. It seems rather presumptuous for a non-believer to tell a believer what they should believe.

 

Actually the worst that could happen is that Christian belief is false and you end up being condemned to hell or some hell like existence because you didn't worship the right deity.

This is be problem with these type of debates because there is no logical basis regarding what may or may not happen in the afterlife or if there is an afterlife.

You raise a great question. If you accept the premise of the OP's argument that you would do anything to not be separated from your children you have to consider what if your children didn't believe and you were convinced they were going to hell would you then follow them to not be separated from them?

As much we love our children every parent has to accept that they aren't us and if we believe in a God that also gave us free will there are decisions that only we as individuals can make.

 

God cannot be benevolent and also look the other way. Christians say bad things happen either as part of a plan or as a test of faith, this is famously illustrated in the Old Testament book of Job in which God allows Satan to inflict pain and misfortune upon God's faithful servant to prove he will eventually curse God for allowing it to happen.

The book of Job invalidates God as benevolent. Why would a benevolent God allow Satan to inflict catasrophe upon a man just to "test" his resolve. Isn't believing in an invisible authority figure faith with absolutely no proof good enough? The Old Testament God is filled with vengeance, jealousy, and vindictiveness consistent with a human personality.

The Mosiac God eventually became too rigid, so the concept of a compassionate God in han form (Christ) puts a burden of guilt on people when they think of themselves as imperfect sinners.

I have more respect for Buddhism in this regard as reward and punishment are not objectives for worship, but self improvement for the betterment of humanity is a goal, to find the peace within ones self.

Christianity and other Mosiac dirived religions are too worried about creating control over human behavior. This is why Fundamentalist cults exist within their sects. To capture a mind with the promise of self preservation and eternal rewards are some of the easiest ways to manipulate masses of people into putting money in your pockets or power over their minds.

 

Don't you see the slight irony on this? You have to believe first before you can understand the text. Shouldn't it be the other way around? As far as I know, most of the time, this the way we humans do things. Religious text appears to want to have a pass on this. If you start off believing first, then you will most likely fall into what we refer to as confirmation bias. Don't know if you've seen the TV series Alien Encounters or Search for big foot, every single testimony or evidence are so convincing to these folks that logic is thrown out the door.

It's not about telling believers what to believe, it's a just providing a different interpretation or point of view of the text in the bible. As an example, Christians will look at the Adam and Eve story with great reverence and if we are to consider this as truth and real history for the sake of argument, an unbiased reader can/might easily interpret god as a vengeful character. But if you have faith, you can have a completely different interpretation.

 

Somewhat related:

The Most & Least Religious US States

Spoiler

Mississippi: 61 percent
Utah: 60 percent
Alabama: 57 percent
Louisiana: 56 percent
South Carolina: 54 percent
Tennessee: 54 percent
Georgia: 52 percent
Arkansas: 51 percent
North Carolina: 50 percent
Oklahoma: 49 percent
Kentucky: 49 percent
Texas: 48 percent
Idaho: 47 percent
Nebraska: 47 percent
Kansas: 47 percent
South Dakota: 46 percent
North Dakota: 46 percent
Indiana: 46 percent
Missouri: 44 percent
Virginia: 44 percent
Iowa: 43 percent
West Virginia: 42 percent
Florida: 42 percent
Minnesota: 42 percent
Ohio: 41 percent
New Mexico: 41 percent
Pennsylvania: 41 percent
Michigan: 41 percent
Illinois: 39 percent
Maryland: 39 percent
Wisconsin: 38 percent
Montana: 38 percent
Alaska: 38 percent
Wyoming: 36 percent
New Jersey: 36 percent
Delaware: 36 percent
Arizona: 36 percent
Colorado: 35 percent
Rhode Island: 34 percent
California: 34 percent
New York: 34 percent
District of Columbia: 32 percent
Hawaii: 32 percent
Connecticut: 32 percent
Washington: 32 percent
Nevada: 32 percent
Oregon: 31 percent
Massachusetts: 28 percent
Maine: 24 percent
New Hampshire: 24 percent
Vermont: 22 percent

 

what if you have multiple children who have different beliefs? my parents are buddhist. i'm an athiest. one of my sisters is agnostic. the other is a god fearing christian. we are all ****ed?

 

Absurd, isn't it?

Electricity, neon, octopi, and the sky are all actual, observable things, which makes an electric neon octopus in the sky much more likely than a god. A silly comparison indeed.

 

Your pastor sounds like a judgmental prick.