Where would Peyton Manning Rank in terms of All Time QB's?

Belichick is the life and blood of the Patriots.

Brady's career/accomplishments likely drastically different without Belichick.

 

brady was pretty mediocre during that first championship run.

 

I don't see how you could argue that Brady was the "focal point" of the 2001 championship team.

That defense only allowed more than 17 points 5 times through the regular season and post season.
Brady averaged 189.5 yards per game that season.
Antowain Smith had more carries than Brady had completions for the season.
Brady had 145 yards in the Super Bowl.

 

That's my favorite question to ask Patriots fans.

Would you rather take Brady without Belichick or Belichick without Brady.

 

Yeah.... and pretty much all of them would take Bill in a heartbeat.

Belichick's accomplishments transcend anything that Brady's ever done. Hell, he helped induce the rule changes to help QB's (after his Pats manhandled the greatest show on turf), and then subsequently took advantage of it with his own team.

I feel most teams, even with idiots as GM's, eventually luck into some serious talent... and its up to them having the right coaches to get that talent to succeed.

With the Patriots, they've won with little talent, loads of talent, and then now little talent again... they've gone through multiple iterations all with very little change in results (win-wise). That's all due to Belichick.

 

Thank you.

 

Win or lose I have him tied for #3 with Brady.
Montana at #1 no doubt a it.
With the great Johnny U a close #2

 

LOL "average teams"

this year, Peyton had the best WR/TE combo in the NFL, and had a very good RB, and a great defense.

the post looks like more like Brady
Brady took average team on offense to the superbowl, and this year the receivers they had were not starts at all, and you saw during the regular season WRs dropping perfect passes.

 

Manning had Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, and Julius Thomas to throw to

Brady had Julian Edelman, a banged up Amendola, and no Gronk or Hernandez

 

You do know Denver lost their top 5 defensive players as well as their best offensive player outside of manning and their center right.....?

 

well, do you know that New Englad also lost their top 5 defensive players, and the best offensive player outside of brady, right?

 

Ya, thats why denver smashed the pats

 

Patriots were 10th in the league in points allowed and the Broncos with their "great defense" were 22nd.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2013.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2013.htm

 

I still think Manning is #5 or #6 QB even with the horrible loss. I said this during the game but I don't fault Manning as much as I think many of the other players made mistakes and the Seahawks played unworldly defense.

Even though I am a huge Rodgers fan and like Drew Brees I think they along with Manning and Brady's greatness needs to be taken with a grain of salt considering the rule changes. I know it is tough to compare players across different eras but I have a hard time seeing those guys putting up such monster numbers if they played in the 80's and earlier.

 

But this current transition didn't happen until Brady got hurt in 2008 and I think both Brady's and Manning's body of work prior to that would still put them in the Top 15 (even Top 10) list of quarterbacks.

 

Definitely, Not a Brady fan, but I disagree...he has a great sense of work ethic about him, while being a naturally-driven person who has/had enough physical talent to be a pro-bowl caliber QB. Without Belichick and the Patriot system, it's hard to say if he would be arguably the best QB ever, but I think he would've been good enough to help turn around a bad team or help perennial playoff team win one or two Super Bowls.

 

What has he done so transcendent without Brady?
Until he wins a superbowl without him . . . . .he is a GOOD coach


Rocket River

 

I'm not a huge NFL historian but it seems like the league became much more offensive minded in the 90's. The days of the Steel Curtain and Lester The Molester Hayes were dead by then.

I think Manning and Brady deserve to be in the top 10 but I have my doubts that they could've put up numbers against the 70's era D's when defenders were legally mugging people.

 

Lets not forget that Belichek got fired from a few coaching jobs and that Brady for much of his career was a back up even in college. Sometimes you get the right coach with the right player(s) and things just click.

Think about the 94-95 Rockets. Dream was great but couldn't get his team over the top prior to then. Rudy T was a good coach but didn't do that great without Dream or on a Lakers team with Kobe.

 

He had a huge role in the Giants Super Bowls (esp since they had to go through the vaunted 49ers). Hell, the giants players carried HIM off the field after one of the NFC championship games.

He also assembled a future who's who of future successful college/NFL head coaches/GM's on his staff in Cleveland... a team that was in the process of doing some great things before the tragic move, and who eventually became a perennial contender/champion under the guidance of Newsome (a Belichick disciple).

His reach/influence on the game of football far exceeds even SB championships... (which he has 5 of them). You can't tell me that the Pats would have had an extended run of success like this with any other coach besides him.