I think these numbers are interesting, thanks to both larsv8 and panda23 for posting. 1. I agree, the most interesting impact the stats show, of Lin being in starting line up, is the substantial negative impact on Parsons. (After all the discussion on the board about Lin/Harden, interestingly, Lin's presence actually has a (very small) net positive impact on Harden's usage, TS%, etc.) 2. Re Dwight, one reason his numbers could be (slightly) down with Lin is that the team plays with more pace with Lin. Also, Bev has developed some nice pnr chemistry with Dwight. Still, maybe that Hakeem Olajuwon interview brainwashed me, but I just can't believe that long term Lin and Howard could not be a good combination given how good both of them are at pnr. 3. I agree with your conclusions about why it makes sense for Lin to come off the bench. -- as long as Bev brings his 3PT percentage back up a little bit, and doesn't continue making the kind of boneheaded mistakes he was making in the Mavs game.
If you filter out the OKC games, which I think as a team they played horribly and not because of Lin's insertion into the starting line up, the numbers looked a whole lot better for the entire unit. Both OKC games were the 5th game in 7 nights and the 2nd game on a back to back.
Yeah ofcourse, when Harden is out Lin is still a very good option to have, given alot of Lin's struggles seem to stem from the overlaping skillset (not to an elite level but you get the idea) this dates back 30/10/2012 after the Harden trade/Lin signing, i posted this a bit earlier (more team centric stats) all at nbawowy.com, just insert your parameters
well if we're trying to draw conclusions from the data then Lin shouldn't start based on how it affects his teammates Harden - Pretty much performs the same, whatever playmaking relief he gets with Lin's presence is made up by the increase in Parsons USG% (14.9% to 19.7%) Parsons - Rediculous drop-off when Lin is on the floor (isn't moving from the starting lineup at all, esp given talent dropoff) Jones - A case to be made for him coming in with the second unit given his effectiveness with Lin Dwight - Drop in PPP & PPS My OP wasn't at all trying to suggest Lin>Harden as some were suggesting (trade harden lulz) much rather that Lin can still perform at a good level when he's the number one option, and if you look at the team performance from the numbers above you'll see they still perform quite well (Lin off Harden on table). Thats why i think Lin should be the 6th man, performs well as a number one option (make sure hes aggressive as hell in the limited time without Harden) and given the performances of the other starters with Lin/Bev. Basically he just needs to be aggressive as possible even if he's on the court with Harden. When Lin is attacking with a scorers mentality he's a very fun player to watch
I agree that Lin should be our 6th man coming off the bench, mostly due to how devoid our bench is of scoring ability. I agree except for the last part. I am kind of meh on that. I want Lin to be aggressive because it helps us win. I honestly don't care how "fun" a player is, only if he is helping a team win or not. That's probably why I don't mind Harden's play style whereas I see some posters whining about it and r****dly bringing up older try hard teams stuck in mediocrity. For me, it is very simple, do you want to win or don't you? If you do, you do anything and everything to win. If that means flopping in a key defensive moment, so be it. If that means slamming someone back down to the ground for a hard foul, I am all for it. ANYTHING that helps the team win basically. Things like "fun" take a backseat.
i think you're reading a bit too much into it LOL, objectively Lin is a very 'fun' player to watch when he's running and gunning but you can't deny he's a much moreeffective player when he's aggressive and not timid. Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part
The passive Jeremy Lin should die forever. There's no excuse for Lin to defer to anyone considering who we have coming off the bench. Even if it pisses off Howard, Harden, and Mchale, so be it. The Rockets will be better off if Lin is always aggressive. If Lin can maintain his efficiency despite being more aggressive, he can prove he is an above average scoring guard.
We are in agreement then. I probably was just oversensitive to it and misinterpreted it. I've met too many Lin fans that don't care if the Rockets win, just that he has fun and plays great.
Quick question here. What is the best bench line up for Lin to run with? In other words, I get that Lin with Harden, Howard, and Parsons is bad for Parsons, but what about Lin with Bev, Parsons, other players. Does that change the picture for Parsons? Are there strong bench/starter mixture lineups that should get more run?
The trade deadline is getting close. Who knows what could happen. Although I have a feeling he will be sticking around.
Unless we are packing him off with Asik to shed cap room for a 3rd star or to get a third star off trade, there is honestly no point in trading him. Teams with good PG's are not going to be trading them and it will be hard to get any value in return for Lin as he is not that good to begin with. I feel we are better off keeping Lin and hoping he finds his way as 6th man. Now if we DO trade him, even for peanuts, I wouldn't mind too much as it will be like spring cleaning for CF.
Didn't Lin say "I work on improving my weaknesses so I can play better, not to be a better fit to the team, because I could get traded to another team tomorrow." So lets stop with the excuses. Lin needs to learn to play under any conditions, not just a special team build catered for him. From what I have seen, he's improving overall. His efficiency is up, his turnovers are down, his 3pt% is trending up, he fixed the hitch in his jump shot, his defense is improved. He's even going left on drives and finishes. Definitely a hard worker. He's inconsistent, but he's still a rookie all things considered. His only downside is the contract. He got a high 2nd contract due to special circumstances, which he's not living up to. However, these are the type of guys that we need. Young players, who can improve and have a high ceiling. You can't expect to build your entire team from trades. We have at least 3 guys like this right now, Jones, Dmo and Lin. This is what ticks me off so much about McHale. He is the worst coach for player development. He won't take any risks with our young players and prefers to stick in veterans for 40 minutes a game. We're not trying to win a championship this season, so we should be trying to develop our young talent this year. At this rate, we'll never get a ring, because for the next 3 years we'll have Harden, Howard, Parsons and scrubs.
Agreed. As a role player, Lin needs to realize his minutes are only going to be as much as his role provides, which as a scoring combo guard who penetrates is a role undermined by the fact that Harden is basically the same, but much, much better. That means Lin can either stay within that role and become further marginalized due to Harden's heavy minutes or expand his role by being able to do a lot of there things well (like Parsons) and be able to handle whatever situation he is thrown into.
Because we are trying to analyze statistical noise. This data repesents about five games spaced out through the year. It is beyond me how anyone can draw conclusions from this data.
not exactly sure, but I think Lin and Bev play well together, they even seem to enjoy being on the floor together
