[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

Hello, again.

I think you've tried to go at me in previous threads, so I'll paraphrase what I've posted before.

Just because you simply disagree with me does not mean I'm wrong. The same goes for me. I completely disagree with a significant portion of your posts. Yes, I've looked over them and they're definitely heavy on one side of the spectrum.

That's fine. You're entitled to be a fan of whomever and whatever you want. In the same respect, you're allowed to "see" whatever you want and claim it as your "truth."

Don't question my "seriousness" or fandom though. I'd wager that you've only recently become a Rockets fan based on your content. I don't know that for sure, but...well, you can see what you write.

Clutch started this thread after waiting a great deal of time to see which of our two guards earned the starting spot. Clutch is probably the most objective poster on this forum, so I know I'm not just "not serious" as you mentioned because I share some of the same beliefs.

I can agree to disagree, and maybe unlike you, I don't have a personal attachment to the issue. Quite simply, I want the Rockets to win, and that takes putting your best players on the floor.

Shoot, if it were up to me, we'd still have KLow and AB together. But, I'm not a GM.

I am, however, a die-hard fan, with or without Patrick or Jeremy.

Hoping you find peace on this beautiful Saturday,

-Cod

 

problem is the ace got busted many times by himself going all in into a trap and the other star got beat by rags from time to time. so the quality of the ace and the star kinda made in china.

 

I said Lin could have locked up the starting spot. Just because he locked it up doesn't mean he would get it. McHale doesn't care for Lin. Don't know why but clearly he prefers Beverly. Lin finished as the starter last year and did nothing to not retain that position. It should have been his to lose and he didn't do anything to lose it and McHale took it from him anyway.

So don't ask me why McHale didn't give Lin the starting spot when he rightfully deserved it. The point is when given a chance to separate himself even more he hasn't and now McHale is justified in not starting Lin. I think they are close but that's because Lin is inconsistent too often. If Lin keeps his level of play like it has been the last 2 games then edge back to Lin and I might even be saying it's not close depending on how Beverly plays.

 

Just because Clutch is objective doesn't mean he is right. The reason why Clutch waited to post his opinion is because his opinion would have been BS earlier. Lin came out of the gates better, and while Beverly was out the first time Lin played better. But when Bev got injured again Lin did not step up and in fact played worse. Beverly comes back and instantly contributes more. Now Lin is playing better. Not sure why but that's the reality.

It was easy for clutch to write his article then because Lin did not out play Beverly but tos say it's not close is just wrong. During that stretch it may not have been close but there was a stretch when Lin was superior as well. Now the pendulum swings the other way again. To write an article when the pendulum is one way doesn't do justice to the players. Howard has played amazing and played pathetic but no one is questioning his ability. Same with harden

It seems obvious to me that Lin at his best this year is better than Beverly at his best. But there is no denying Lin has not been at his best all year and sometimes has been very bad. That's what causes some to say Beverly is so much better but the last 2 games Lin has been better than Beverly and it's not even close. So what do you say now. The thing is Beverly plays with a tenacity that is very appealing to a coach but he also makes his share of boneheaded mistakes as well. neither is a top ten pg in the league and both bring different skills to the table. You gotta love how Beverly grabs big rebounds from bigger guys. But Lin can drive to the hoop better than anyone on the team not named harden.

It is close in spite of what Clutch says. Beverly has not separated himself from Lin just Lin has played bad at times. I for one hope one of them does separate himself from the other but not because the othr starts to suck but rather one just improves that much more.

 

Problem with this is only 3 are playmakers- Harden, Lin, and Brooks. Not Dwight, not Parsons, not Jones or Asik. Maybe Dwight can be with another year or 2 with Hakeem. Maybe Parsons can develop some handles over the next few summers. Maybe Jones or D-Mo becomes our David West.

Harden is enough for the regular season, but its going to get really ugly in the playoffs vs OKC, Iggy, Memphis, Indiana (if we luck into Portland & the Spurs). You can't beat good defensive teams with ONE playmaker on the floor. Especially when that playmaker isn't in the habit of completely dissecting a defense and serving it up on a platter for the roleplayers a la Nash, DRose, or 06 Wade.

Sooner or later ya'll are going to realize we need Harden, another playmaker, AND a heat check guy off the bench. The lineup with Bev & Harden just is not going to cut it in the postseason. Its becoming a pattern in our 4th Q stats. Unless we're putting our hopes on getting yet another free agent to upgrade the 3/4.

 

Umm... everyone with a brain realizes this. Not sure if you have seen it around, but members are always dreaming about getting players like CP3, Love, Millsap, ect. We are painfully aware that we are not a championship team yet, that we are missing that 3rd player to push us over the hump. Wishing won't make reality though, and the reality is that this roster is what we have to work with currently.

 

Yeah... so what if I can't post yet? I'll have already posted like 100 times and you guys don't review my posts so I'll never show up.

 

Hey I agree with your post pimpn. My thing is even if Lin did play twice as better than Beverley, Mchale still would have inserted Bev back in the starting lineup. The reason why I asked is because Lin did out perform Beverley imo early on.

Therefore I concluded he didn't have a shot at that starting spot Old Man to begin with. Like you stated Mchale took the stsrting job from line even after he had a pretty good 2nd half of the season.

Another thing every player plays inconsistent, especially role players.

 

Remember Lin was coming off an injury himself. That could have played a part in his play pimpn.

 

Regarding advanced statistics, all that matters in my eyes are wins and losses. Sometimes there are outlier games that can skew season statistics one way such as the OKC game it other blowouts/bad games. But one thing remains constant and that is W/L. Is this team better with Lin starting? Probably. W/L ratio is significantly better as compared to Bev. But in time I think people will come to see this and right now it's close enough where a case can be made that we need JLins scoring off the bench. However if we continue losing more games as a result of the Beverly experiment, it may be time to call it altogether :/

 

Right. People here, please take some elementary Statistics class before using advanced statistics. Otherwise, stick to statistics as basic as possible.

 

Interesting point pal... you are aware one blow out by say 40 points where the whole team plays bad can skew an entire seasons netppg fg% etc significantly whereas it just counts as one L in the W/L column. Moral of the story? Don't ditch class

 

2+2=5.1

 

I agree. Some people think that Clutch is the know all see all. Whatever his word is, means it is the final. Maybe for rules of the forum, since he is the mod and does own this website, but people need to realize, Clutch is a fan like all of us and has his own opinions too.

 

So we know that the numbers show Beverley should start over Lin.

Now......here's my question:

Do the numbers show Lin should be starting over Jones?


Bev/Lin/Harden/Parsons/Dwight

That's your 5 best players on this team as long as Asik is not playing.

 

The only factor contributing to Lin playing better/worse is James harden. He didn't play better when bev went out because James was still playing. He did better earlier in the year because James was out for a few games then and didn't demand the ball as much when he did play because of lingering injuries.

It all depends in how James wants to play with Lin on the court. James doesn't not want to play off the ball at all when he's on the court and that makes Lin ineffective.

Playing the role of a secondary guard next to James harden, Lin and bev are pretty much the same.

 

I will also paraphrase what I've said. I never even really gave an opinion on Lin, just restating things that he's accomplished in the past in NYK and then during certain situations in Houston. He's shown flashes of allstar level play at times and I simply inferred that if he's done it before, there is a possibility he could repeat his level of play either in Houston or wherever. The only opinion I have is all the bashing he gets on this forum about his potential and his abilities. To say that a 25yr old NBA player will never be an all star or can never help lead a team to whatever is ludicrous and that goes for any player on Houston or in the NBA. To use an analogy, what if I were to say to you, that shortly after graduating from college that you would never become a manager at your company, how silly and insulting does that sound?

 

I absolutely agree MR. CLUTCH is fair above and beyond most. But being fair and right are two different things. In the end it's his opinion. Even a well thought out opinion can still be wrong. If you go back and read Clutch's takes on Lin they just seem off to me. Not sure why he undervalues him. maybe it's the salary thing. 8 Mil a year seems too much but Lin didn't demand that, Houston gave it to him willingly and probably would have given more if they could have. The reality of that is Lin has only gotten 5 mil a year so far. That's a fair amount for his play.

Here's the facts, Lin improved his game all of last year and by the end of the season was a better player. Don't have to agree but the facts prove it out. Lin came into this year improved. He outplayed Bev to start, you can disagree but don't tell me he didn't and it isn't even close. Just not true. Lin hit a slump while Bev was out. Bev comes back in brings some hop to the position and everyone says Bev is better and ain't even close. For that period it is true but the season is long. Even McHale said no player can play at high level all year long.

Some say Lin was still injured but had to play more minutes because of Bev's absence. I think it was Bullard who said Lin's back problems were worse than Parsons. I don't know if that's true but clearly Lin has played less minutes since Bev returned and clearly his game and step is back. If you want to say Bev is still better I am okay with that but to say it ain't even close when the season is only halfway finish and they both have had ups and downs is not going to wash with me.

I am not a Lin only fan. I like Patrick Beverly and glad he is on the team. I do not believe ridiculous statements that Lin should close not Harden and I do not agree Bev is better and it is not even close. I won't call that ridiculous because I respect Clutch and concede I may be missing something. But I watch the games and I watch Lin and Bev and I think they both bring different things to floor and IMO what Lin brings is more valuable then what Bev brings and if Harden weren't here Lin would be the starter and that might not even be close.

 

Yeah that may be part of Lin's problem. He gives way to Harden too much. But if he doesn't Harden mopes around on the side refusing to participate in the offense. So what is he to do. Harden wants to be the man and mostly gets annoyed when he is not. Coach won't scream at Harden for doing so. That's job security.

The biggest coaching challenge for McHale is to get Harden to buy into moving the ball around. Every game you hear McHale say sticky hands is the problem but what he neglects to say is all the glue is on Harden. Parsons was speaking the truth about Harden.

Lin has to play his game and not worry about pissing off Harden but part of that means getting to ball into Harden early. Unless it's late in the 4th quarter or a fastbreak I don't think harden should ever bring the ball down court. That's not going to happen so Lin is stuck in this difficult situation for him. It's the circumstance that has people so enamored with Bev over Lin than anything else. So be it. Just keep getting better that's all you can hope for Lin and Beverly. They both have and I think they both will continue to.

 

Lin himself is always saying that he's trying to be aggressive. It's not as if he doesn't know that he plays at his best when it's constantly attacking.

After the Mavs game, he said that his challenge was to know when his aggressiveness is working and when it's not. That's probably why he sometimes swings from overly passive to blazingly reckless.

He's a young player and still needs to figure out how to pick his spots and such.