[ClutchFans] The numbers are clear: Patrick Beverley deserves to start over Jeremy Lin

I can't wait for lin to get traded.

 

Because Asians don't get in because of affirmative action. Lol. Look at schools and such. They always try to kick Asians out.

 

I guess the 8 wins and 6 losses warms your heart too?

 

I guess so! cuz it seems like you post that every day

 

LOL no one thinks Lin is a savoir. Now that he's not the scrub you thought he was the only way you can continue to trash him is under the guise that he's a savior, but no one holds that view.

 

Lin was never brought in to be some sort of savior. We were tanking; for those who claim we never tanked, face it, even if it never had a chance to happen, we blew up the entire team and signed Lin and Asik. Our best player was either Martin, Parsons, or Lin at the time. Not a very good place and definitely no where near playoffs sniffing. The reason we signed Lin was a) Les was upset we let him go for Flynn, especially after Linsanity b) we were desperate for a decent PG and c) we needed to put butts in chairs during tank season.

Of course then we got Harden things shifted course completely. We didn't need Lin the starter anymore or to actively push his development. We got Harden for crying out loud, who is a far superior scorer than Lin. D is a different story, but even then, it's not like Lin is great there either. I consider Lin a better passer when in control, but Harden is no slouch either. At this point in time, the team became Harden's team. Lin had to roll with or roll out. To his credit, he has been a great team player and never complained.

Afterwards, we got Howard in addition to Lin and things took a huge turn for us. Now we were in contender talks and the team is now in full "build-around-stars" mode. Contrary to what a lot of his fans may think, Lin is not a star, no where close to one. If Lin wants to shine, his best bet is to go to a loser team like Bobcats that is desperate enough to develop on offense where he has the keys, basically the same situation he was in at the start of Linsanity in NYC.

 

despite this epic monologue, you forgot the important fact that when Lin was the man on a loser NYK team, the knicks won a lot...he brought them back into the playoffs from the dead...so yeah, teams can win big with Lin running the show

 

And if any GM truly believed they could "win big" with Lin running the show, then we should be able to get a nice little haul for him on the trade market. I mean shouldnt Moreys phone be ringing off the hook by other GMs trying to pry away this under utilized star from us?

Face it, he's better than what some people want to admit and at the same time not nearly as good as some try to make him out to be.

 

well....A. PG is the deepest position in the league, so for a GM to tinker with his roster for an upgrade at PG doesn't make as much sense as upgrading another position, this is not to say Lin isn't a good player, it means there are a lot of good players at his position and

B. Morey values Lin and wants a very good deal for him

I never said the guy was lebron, but to say that he can't be a key piece to a title winning team this early in his career is very shortsighted...same as the haters who say Harden can't improve and help a team to a title

 

Spoiler

This is pretty much exactly what Larvs8 did but I thought it'd be good to do it myself for my own understanding, and it pretty much supports the notion that Lin's minutes should be staggered at least with Parsons and Dwight.

Basically, Parsons sucks ass when Lin is on the court for some whatever reason, his eFG, TS, USG, PPP, PPS, FG% as you can see just falls off the face of the earth, Dwight as well sees a fall, Jones performance with Lin however is far and above that with Beverley, while Harden see's a modest bump playing with Lin as opposed to Beverley..

 

Backtracking at its finest.

You literally just said he's the type of guy who can take a team of losers to the playoffs as the lead guy.

Now you say he isn't that much of an upgrade for GMs to consider adding a guy who will instantly make them a playoff team? If he were viewed as such, they would have no problem adding him to their roster and would be doing what they can to do so.

Now your second point I can get on board with. I too value what Lin brings to this team and believe we shouldn't just give him away to the first team that will take him.

 

where did I back track? I do think he can bring a crappy team to the playoffs, which he more or less did in NY...and yes there are a lot of good pgs in this league, but the teams that are mediocre are so in a specific way, NYK were underperforming and playing poorly and Lin helped unlock their potential...why teams aren't trading for Lin? A combination of already having a young pg that they want to commit to, morey not wanting to give up Lin and also other teams not even knowing what the problem is or wanting to tank

 

This is a logic fallacy. To say Lin is good, but many others are better, cannot be correct. Because if there are many players better than Lin, then by definition makes Lin not good relative to the NBA.

If Lin running the show can get a team to win big, then by your own statement so can many other PGs. Which doesn't make sense because the NBA is a zero-sum game. Not everyone can win big. This isn't youth league where "there are no losers and everyone's a winner" system.

 

I never said there are many players better than Lin, more so that there are a lot of quality players at the PG position, Lin is still better than most players in the NBA, in fact, out of the ~500 players in the NBA, Lin ranked in the top 100 according to ESPN this year, meaning that out of 5 random players you pick out of a hat, Lin will be the best out of that 5 on average

And I simply said that Lin proved he could lead an underperforming, medicore roster like the NYK 2012 to the playoffs. I'm merely giving him credit for something he did in the past, which, if we're being fair means there's a possibility he could do that in the future. I'd say leading an injury depleted team into the playoffs counts as being on the "winning" side of today's NBA. Never once did I proclaim he would turn into MJ and carry a team to a title, but rather establishing a baseline for his success.

 

Lin competes in the guard pool, rather than just the point guard pool; and he does it in an environment where small-ball lineups are becoming increasingly popular for more than just a few minutes a game. So he can be a key player on a team while still having many players better than him in the league.

But the key that we don't see Lin really running the show in a traditional PG sense... or Harden running the show, for that matter. It doesn't really work that way in our system.

If given significant play calling responsibility he might be better. D'antoni seemed to think he was good at that.

Or not.

 

Lin was brought in because Morey was desperate for a star. And Lin was sort of a "star" at that time in the wake of Linsanity. Of course no GM, including Morey, believed that Lin could sustain Linsanity. But he did show potential to be a star player. And he definitely showed that he's a big draw.

If the Harden trade happened earlier than Lin's free agency, I doubt that Morey would sign Lin, given the fact that Morey seemed to be able to get quality PGs at will.

 

Lin helped an 8-15 team to a 24-25 record before he got hurt. The team went 12-5 after he got hurt. To say a guy who played double figure minutes in 27 of 66 games "led" a team is a bit of a stretch.

 

I'm not sure if you're saying "star" in the sense of all-star or in the sense of famous. Morey was desperate for an all-star level player, and there was a chance that Lin could develop into that. In that sense it was the same kind of risk as signing Royce White. The difference was the price tag for the risk.

I assume Morey viewed that risk as being lower, given the level at which Lin had already produced in the NBA.

 

This topic has been rehashed a million times but I think we all have seen that Lin can put up 18ppg and 8-10 assists and help a team (like the rockets) win consistently...I get it though, it's very easy to throw out the customary Lin can't sustain linsanity etc because it's what everyone else says...when the facts are that when Lin gets to play starter minutes as the pg, he puts up allstar calibre stats and the team wins, and that is an actual basketball related fact during his year and a half with the rockets thus far

 

ok "spearheaded the knicks" or "Was a catalyst" in the turnaround of the NYK season. Bottom line is, he was an integral part of them salvaging that season. His record as a starter was also excellent and his numbers were great. He was clearly a leader on that team with Melo out. Even respected vets like chandler and stoudemire deferred to him. Because he has done this in the past, there is a possibility he could replicate that success elsewhere, which he has done in spurts when given a chance on the rockets. No one is saying he's lebron, but give the guy full credit for what he's been able to accomplish, both on NY and Houston.