Obama to raise federal minimum wage via executive order

I think that's supposed to be phased out by 2015

Spoiler

 

I completely disagree. It's a subject of public policy as we try to perpetuate a stable society, and its right and appropriate for government to make rules around it.

That's doubly true when the government is also at the end of the line providing welfare for people who can't support themselves. Is it none of the public's business if food stamps provided by the government subsidize a private employer paying his staff too little to cover their own living expenses?

 

That is completely insulting to the worker and is also the polar opposite of freedom. If making decisions for others is your cup of tea then the land of the free might not be the best place for you.

 

I'm fine where I'm at. Being in a democracy, I'll vote as I please and you do the same. Whatever you think the values citizens of a free country are supposed to have, I'll employ my freedom to think my own thoughts, thanks.

 

None of those were done in response to minimum wage increases. If you're arguing that technology will replace jobs over time to improve quality of service, I agree. But that's going to happen regardless - the idea that raising the minimum wage a small amount (historically, it doesn't even keep up with inflation) is the impetus to a mass shift to technology doesn't hold.

 

As yes, back to your sophisticated "policy by slogan" method of government.

 

Not to improve quality of service but to save money and offer a cheaper product.

nobody argued that this one event would be the catalyst. It is multiple pieces of legislation that has led to companies investing in ways of replacing their work staff with machines. You asked for evidence of this (I have no idea why since its obvious) and I gave it to you.

As far as your claim that this would happen regardless; it wouldn't if the cost of the human labor was cheaper than buying and maintaining the machine. Lots of legislation such as this makes it that not so.

 

So, you agree that raising the minimum wage here won't cause fast food robots to replace human workers, yet you posted it anyway in this thread.

Yes technology would continue to advance and do jobs that technology couldn't do previously with or without minimum wage. Wanting to halt that technology by getting humans to work for unlivable almost slave wages isn't a help for anyone including those seeking employment. Nor would it be a help for society at large.

 

It seems like most people here are acknowledging the idea that minimum wage jobs will eventually be replaced by automation if minimum wage keeps rising.

When that happens, how do you think that will impact society at large?

 

Minimum wage jobs will eventually be replaced by automation even without minimum wage rising, because technology continually gets cheaper. The reason we don't have street sweepers or loomers or any number of other jobs anymore isn't related to minimum wages. Minimum wage increases are not the driving force behind technology replacing workers because the gradual increases that often don't even keep up with inflation rarely ever make the huge investment in technology worth it. A sudden large increase could be a different story.

How has eliminating $0.50 / day wages affected society? How has eliminating child labor affected society? How have overtime rules affected society? How has eliminating slavery affected society?

Each increased the cost of labor for employers. It will be the same thing again. Businesses will adjust. People will adjust. People will be treated better.

 

Jobs will be replaced by automation when it's (perceived) to be profitable to do so depending on a variety of factors - the hysteria that a modest increase in the current minimum wage is the only thing separating an army of cyborgs from throwing janitors and food service workers onto the street is so far fetched that it makes the anti MW lobby look like a bunch of buffoons.

Here is a crazy ass news flash - the idea of purchasing and receiving items from mechanized devices has existed for at least 100 years. Do you know what an "automat" was? These were going to replace restaurants:

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Guess what - they didn't. Guess what again - a modest rise in minimum wage does not mean the TOILET CLEAN-A-TRON 5000 is going ot be deployed manana, so depriving people of earning a living wage (and allowing corporations to free-ride off of the social safety net) based on "SOMETHING SOMETHING STAR TREK REPLICATOR CHAOS!" which is your logic chain here - is just ****ing dumb.

When we get to the star trek replicator society and everything is produced, serviced and controlled by AI's, we'll deal with it- it really has no bearing on current reality.

 

Your hyperbole and cussing indicates defensiveness and lack of ability to argue based on fact, logic and reason. Bottom line is that when you artificially raise wages, low margin businesses will find ways to become more productive and in many cases eliminate jobs.

 

I'm not sure your examples are relevant. You're referring to instances where cheaper labor was no longer an option, and businesses had to resort to paying for more expensive labor b/c they still needed the labor.

In this instance, we're talking about minimum wage labor being replaced by machines. There's a big difference.

Can you elaborate on how/why you think people will be treated better when automation occurs?

 

Sure, a single modest increase in minimum wage won't lead to automation. No one is saying it will. But what about the next modest increase? Or the one after that? Or the one after that?

 

Then we can worry about it then. We have a current problem.

Not solving it, because of its speculative connection to an unrelated future problem that will arise regardless, though will probably not exist 10's or even 100's of years into the future is ridiculous.

 

Not according to the data.

 

You're drawing incorrect conclusions from the data. It's what you did in the minimum wage thread, and it's what you're doing now.

If you post the data and your interpretation of it, I'll be happy to show you where you're wrong.

 

Why? Did machines not exist in the past?

 

I think it's already been pointed out that technology will replace some jobs whether or not minimum wage is accepted. Hopefully the effects will be a better more enlightened society, and improved efficiency.

 

Were machines in the past as efficient, productive, and cost-effective as they are now?