Could Motiejunas and Jones both move out of the rotation?

Geez... this dumb a#$ thread gets bumped again after a mini Memphis (probably the worst matchup for a young front line) series....fitting.

Who ever said that a big man rotation of Howard/Jones/D-Mo/Casspi could EVER withstand the likes a Healthy Grizzlies or a SA Spurs team in a 7 game series RIGHT NOW????? Nobody... You are arguing with yourself BHollic.

The only thing halfway knowledgeable posters here have continued to hammer home is that the Rockets should do something stupid like trade D-Mo and Jones RIGHT NOW because they weren't in the rotation on October 31st.

The Rockets need an upgrade before they can contend... GREAT.... but that doesn't mean you dump all your promising young players ASAP for nothing because until the Rockets address holes on this team, and can add an Asik, trade for a Millsap type, add a glue veteran in a Battier role, address the 6th man role unless Lin can become that guy more consistently, and upgrade the coaching & execution either internally or externally.

This is not a contending team yet BHollic. Jones and D-Mo are guys we should root for to develop UNTIL Morey can finally start getting major upgrades to the roster because there is a good chance those upgrades may never come as players like Millsap, LMA, and Kevin Love aren't just falling from trees nowadays. Last time I checked they are more popular in todays NBA than Dwight Howard.

Let this thread die.

 

So you do agree with me that even the Grizzlies will beat us as long as we are running TJones and DMo out there. As well as the Spurs. So I would assume we can extrapolate that to the Trailblazers, Clippers, and Thunder too.

Who exactly could we beat in the first round of the playoffs???????

I assume the should in the above statement is supposed to be "should not". To which I agree. I don't think you'll find any post where I suggested that we do something stupid.

I have never advocated dumping all our promising young players ASAP for nothing.

Ahhhhhhh. I see we agree that as long as our big man rotation is Jones/DMo/Dwight that we aren't a contending team. And I see we agree that we should root for all our guys to develop and get better UNTIL Morey can finally start getting major upgrades to the roster. Like...no duh!?

But apparently you interpret serious analysis of who and what we are with Jones and DMo in the rotation as some sort of "not rooting for the team". Don't know where that comes from. You won't find a bigger fan of this team than me. But I'm also realistic. This thread is about whether or not TJones and DMo could both move out of the rotation. At the time it was started they weren't really in the rotation. They got there because of Asik throwing a fit and then being injured.

And the truth is they are in the rotation now simply because we don't have anybody else. With Asik and Greg Smith dinged and Jones proving he cannot play the backup 5 effectively...DMo has found a spot in the rotation. And because Asik threw a fit and then got dinged, Jones got in the rotation. Neither guy played his way into the rotation. They were both thrown in the rotation out of necessity. Because there was nobody else.

Sure I hope, hope, hope they get better and better. But if they are still in the rotation come February 21st...we have no chance to win a ring this year because they shouldn't be in the rotation of a championship contender and a championship contender status is what we started out as our goal for this season.

Can't let it die. leebigez wants to keep it going.

 

Yep, that great big man rotation was so awesome vs the none championship rotation of houston,lol. Yep keep it going.

 

Are you kidding? No Splitter dude. No Green. Manu gets hurt early. And no Harden. You can't possible extrapolate a single thing out of that game as far as the playoffs go. LOL. Keep trying.

Why dont you comment about what Memphis did to us twice?

 

Lol for your information, Memphis could win against the Heat if they are on a hot streak.
Happened to Houston. Not that I am saying Rox are on Heat's level but who saw it coming that the Rockets are 3-0 against the Spurs? Don't think a lot of guys.

 

Nobody saw 3-0 coming against the Spurs.


But here's what we can see coming.....a mile away.....like a slow train wreck....us getting busted out of the playoffs by a bigger team with a legit big man rotation that kicks our butt.

 

Yep, another championship frontline vs the non championship frontline,lol. Keep it going youngster. This isn't nba 2k, players are real and the actually get better.

 

Like who? Memphis? Or are you gonna try to sell me on clippers,okc,or gsw awesom frontline?

 

OKC has Ibaka, Collison, a young Steven Adams, and of course Perkins. They will dominate us in the paint in a 7-game series unless DMo and TJones seriously develop by May (not likely).

Clippers have Blake and Deandre with other vets behind them. We would probably be ok against them if we had Omer healthy and playing good. But we don't.

Memphis of course. We can't beat them in a 7-game series.

When or If the Spurs get healthy they will have Duncan, Splitter, plus Diaw and Bonner. If they are healthy they will beat us in a 7-game series.

Portland - They're not deep with their big man rotation. They lack at #3 behind LaMarcus and Lopez. But the matchups don't work in our favor. Dwight can't defend LaMarcus. Nobody on our roster can defend LaMarcus. But Robin and LaMarcus can defend our guys on the other end. This is another matchup that it would benefit us to have the Twin Towers in action. If Omer were playing healthy with good attitude I'd say we were equal to them at the big spots. But just being realistic, I don't think we win a 7-game series against them starting today nor will we win in May if we don't have Omer back or some other acquisition to better match up with them inside.

Golden State - Bogut, Lee, Speights vs. Dwight, Jones, DMo....hmmmm that's a tough one there. The good news for us is GS has a player that is really a net zero in Lee. Whatever he gives you offensively he gives away defensively. But here's the kicker..Warriors are missing Ezeli AND Jermaine O'Neal. IF they get even one of those guys back this year by May playing well behind the starters it probably throws the big man matchups in their favor. I think a 7-game series against GS is a toss up. Could go either way.

Dallas - I thought the game last night was very interesting...and very telling. McHale went away from TJones on Dirk finally. I say finally because it's been obvious for a long time that Jones couldn't slow Dirk down. Now the Jones fans will point out that he had another "solid" game with 16 points and 5 boards but those are just empty numbers gained at the expense of Howard and others. Everything at the rim except for 1 short jump shot barely outside the paint area. Meanwhile on the defensive end Dirk went nuts....again.

So McHale brings in DMo. Heck he looked good with that 7-foot frame running up and down the court.....and he did bang around and board. But he really didn't slow down Dirk either. And the rebounds...I'm afraid those are like Jones' points. He got them off all the attention the Mavs were putting on Dwight. However I do give him a "little" credit for his D and rebounding. He is showing improvement there. Just like I give Jones a "little" credit for his finishing. At least Jones is showing he can do something on the court during regular games.

However, I personally don't see us being able to matchup up against a healthy Dallas in a 7-game series right now either. Dallas best big man combination is Dirk and Brandan Wright up front. And Wright is just now coming back from an injury.

Dallas made their own adjustments last night as well. They went away from Dally, who is a complete sleep-walking joke, and went with Dujuan Blair on Dwight, a much better matchup for them. If they get Wright back to full health that give them a trifecta of Dirk, Wright, Blair/Dally against Dwight, Jones, DMo. And then they've got Marion at the 4 if they go small? Guys....that's a tough matchup for us. I'm sorry. It's a tough matchup. A 7-game series against those guys would be a dog fight.

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Now in the East, very simply, we do not matchup with either Indy nor Miami favorably at the big man spots. Indy is obvious..Hibbert (Mahimni), West (Scola) against our bigs. Sorry....we won't win that war right now. And Miami...guys you have to understand how they play. Lebron plays all over the floor. He's playing the 4 spot a lot of minutes for them. Their big man rotation is Bosh/Birdman/Lebron/Udonis. We can't matchup with that right now either.

We need a better big man rotation.

 

I think the Grizzlies RIGHT NOW are playing maybe the best basketball of anyone else in the NBA and they are taylor made to play playoff style basketball in the regular season.... which is a HUGE problem for the Rockets, Portland, SA, etc. who either dont have the personnel or enough game planning ahead of time to matchup with the Grizzlies.

Thats the biggest thing with Memphis. They are a matchup nightmare. If the Rockets had Asik or a decent true center backing up Dwight(assuming he might get into foul trouble, or not play 40 minutes those games at a high level) I would say... yes the Rockets COULD beat Memphis in a playoff series....

However they dont have ANY insurance right now behind Dwight with someone that can guard Z-Bo on the low block, but most teams dont have that either right now besides maybe Indiana... even with them, they still have very poor defensive bigs (Mahinmi has good moments but he isn't reliable IMO & Scola is transparent on D) and they could get in huge trouble if West or Hibbert got into foul trouble.

I dont think the Rockets should say they can't win a playoff series right now, but yes without Asik or major insurance behind Dwight they have a huge risk of getting out manned in the paint if D-Mo & Jones are relied upon to go against the likes of a Memphis, or Indiana.

That being said, I absolutely think they could play and perform well in a playoff series. They haven't proven that they will for sure perform well but they have proven IMO that the talent is there to be rotation bigs in the right lineups.

Sorry man but I got to call you out on that one. While you never said you would dump them for "nothing" you advocated on many occasion that Morey should trade them ASAP when they "still had value". that was your MO for a long long time back between October and December.

What doesn't seem to be clear to you though is that if Morey would have traded them back in October they would be LUCKY to even get a 2nd rounder or each of them... that IMO is dumping them for nothing or next to it. You wont get anywhere near that kind of talent 99% of the time with a 2nd rounder.

Yes and No.

While Jones, D-Mo, Casspi, and Howard alone would be an issue for this team to win a playoff series , Howard/Jones/Asik/D-Mo & Casspi has the "potential" to be a pretty potent big man rotation. D-Mo and Jones have a ton of talent & natural ability.

My main argument against your campaign here is that the fact is Jones and D-Mo have the talent & natural abilities to be much, much better than 99% of the "upgrades" and stop gap players you have suggested they trade for, and move Jones/D-Mo ASAP for peanuts.

I think when its all said and done in 5 years we can resurrect this thread and say... wow, we wanted to trade these guys for who.... who the hell is Jason Smith?

The Rockets can't just be thinking about winning a title this year, and only this year. They have to keep their eye on the long term, and Jones has a bright future. The only question is, can he bring it in the playoffs at a young age when they need it. Horry, Cassell, Rondo, etc. did it. Lets hope Jones can too unless he's the key trade piece that brings in a sure fire all-star caliber big man to solidify this team as a win-now team.

 

LOL! Memphis? Memphis will most likely face OKC first if they make playoffs.
Clippers....frontline is only as good as Paul.
Spurs....I fear Parker at this point, but think frontline will hold own.
GSW...frontline is not concern.
Portland...all about Aldridge in that he excels at what Rockets give up.
Dallas...see Memphis.
Minnesota...see Memphis.
Phoenix...not a concern for frontline.

The teams that have front courts that can really hurt the Rockets are all fighting for eight seed and I'd rather face them than whoever takes West (OKC) or Portland. On the East, I would be glad if Rockets make it far enough to have an uphill battle against Lecoast.

 

"playoff style basketball" is a term that we should be decimating in regards to our team..not the opponent. And that is the point I'm making. Our big man rotation is not taylor made to play playoff style basketball. I'll leave it to you to explain what "playoff style basketball" is.

It is clear to me that if Morey could have traded them for value back in October that he would have done so. I didn't advocate nor would I advocate dumping them for second rounders. I did mention some trade possibilities involving second rounders but there was more involved than just second rounders. And I'm still advocating a trade of at least one of the two players. However I do trust what Morey is doing here. All this situation tells me is either the trade market is dead right now and/or most teams are waiting until the trade deadline to make deals. And I suspect it's a little bit of both.

I did strongly advocate trading them even BEFORE training camp. I was advocating trading them during the draft! Why would I do that? Well, look what I was for? I was for trying to trade them and get up in the draft for Cody Zeller. That's not dumping them. I've never advocated dumping them.

We agree on that. If we had Dwight/Omer as a solid two in the big man rotation, each playing 30 minutes a night, then we could find the 3rd big (most likely Casspi) from among DMo, TJones, Casspi. And DMo and Jones do have a lot of talent and natural ability. But I will remind you, the league is chock full of those kinds of players as is the history of NBA failures.

You are arguing against the wind. Go back and isolate the trades I have suggested that were moving Jones/D-Mo ASAP for peanuts. Find them and post them here.

Truthfully the odds are just very high that we will look back at Jones, DMo, and Jason Smith and realize they were all bit players who are still knocking around the league. And the odds are also just as good that we will look back and see that Jason Smith was/is the best player of the bunch. You gotta be realistic with the talent in the NBA. All the players with great natural talent and ability don't just congregate on the Rockets roster. They are literally on every roster in the league.

I challenge you to find one single trade I have mentioned that doesn't take into account our future and locks us in to just winning this year or next. Find just one trade where I recommended trading for some player that would destroy our future ability to contend.

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Right now, we are staring at the trade deadline. You know what I'm advocating right now? I'm advocating trading Jeremy Lin. I'm advocating that we move heaven and earth to trade him. You know why? Because if we can trade Jeremy Lin we can set ourselves up for the future. That's why. It's not because I don't like Jeremy Lin. I like him a lot. But his contract is an impediment to us becoming a super team. He plays the single position where there is plenteous talent in his talent bracket....and better.

How strongly am I advocating trading Jeremy Lin? So strongly that I'd give him away for an expiring contract and I'd send out one of Jones or DMo to get the job done. Why? Because if we can get Lin gone for an expiring, and we can move Asik for another expiring, that opens up max cap space for us for this summer. And that max cap space this summer is going to be more valuable than Lin and Asik and Jones and DMo combined will be on the floor over the next 40 games of this season and definitely over the next 82 games next year. I am advocating trading both Lin and Asik for cap space this summer if we can't trade those guys for young players and draft pick assets.

Now, do I really want to trade all those guys? No. I'd actually like to keep DMo and see if he could continue to grow into something. And realistically the only reason I would like to keep DMo over Jones is simply because of his size. That's the only reason. I don't think DMo is going to be a superstar. And I seriously doubt if he can even rise to star level. He hasn't broken out and he's 23 years old. But I do believe that he could still become and effective rotation player on a championship team as could TJones. But that's about the best either of them could EVENTUALLY become, just a rotation piece on a championship team. However, neither of them is anywhere close to that today. So they are expendable in the interest of making this team a championship team.

 

Memphis vs. Miami in a 7-game series would probably be a lot of fun to watch. But I don't think Memphis could beat Miami in a 7-game series.

However, that's not really the proper light to look at things in when it comes to our team and DMo and Jones being in the rotation. We have to look at our road, what we have to do and where we have to go to get rings. And right now that means we gotta get through 3 teams in the West and one team in the East.

Without Omer, this team is basically last year's team with a slight upgrade at center (Dwight over Omer) and a downgrade on the wing (Delfino to Casspi) with the PF minutes going to Jones/Casspi instead of Marcus Morris, Patrick Patterson, Delfino.

We backed into the playoffs last year and got popped by OKC, who were down an injured Westbrook for the last 4 games, after giving them the proverbial run for their money. This team and our primary rotation is not better than last year's team and rotation given the current configuration. We are only 4 1/2 games from being out of the playoffs altogether. And although it does appear we are gapping the bottom 3 playoff spots right now, that could change drastically with just a few losses.

 

Asik is keeping us from beating the Grizz night in night out. Where is that guy? and his phantom injury btw.... Lol He is next to Royce White as one of the worst pick up haha. kidding but in the long run it is not a good pick up.

With Asik we played them hard in the Preseason and the game we won.

 

I believe that Jones and D-Mo can develop into solid and consistent rotation players with time. Either one or both could be used as a piece in order to obtain a star in the future, if they keep on working hard.
Right now, we are not likely to get much back in a trade for them.

 

The lack of Asik or a suitable replacement is the real problem here.

Again, DM has my full confidence, but I will be VERY disappointed if this bizarre Asik situation lingers into mid-February without some sort of decision, one way or another.

The only unacceptable outcome here is the status quo.

 

At this point why should we expect Asik to make it back at all season? It's pretty much a disastrous joke.

Trade him and he will play immediately.

 

If this injury is real (and by all accounts (Clutch included) it sounds real) than I am concerned about them reporting here in the next week or two that Asik will need surgery to repair something in that knee.

That swelling and pain just isn't a fluke. Its the same thing with McGrady's knees back in the day before he found out he had very little to no meniscus left after months of being in and out of the lineup and seeing countless doctors.

Not saying its that at all, but what I am saying is with basketball players (especially bigs) and their knees, where there is smoke than there is fire. If this is legit, than he might very well be a rocket this year and next because of this injury, and we might not even get to utilize his services much at all as well.... which will really be a blow to this team.

So D-Mo.... better get ready for some big minutes brother. Keep the protein shakes coming. And hope Camby has been hitting the gym pretty hard as well over there in Pearland.

 

I forget how great splitter is. Spurs can't wait for Duncan to go so Splitter can be the man. Meanwhile,jones drops 21 and 9,lol.

You don't realize how ridiculous u sound. You gloat about adams,splitter,perkins,and ibaka,yet our big man rotation is garbage. I mind you that howard is part of that group and he's the trump card just like paul,durant and others. The rockets didn't sign howard to be cancelled out by perkins. The signed him because he's capable of being dominant and forcing the other teams to react. If going into the playoffs against whomever and howard is cancelled out, the rox will probably lose. Just as if durant,paul,and Lma are canceled out,they lose too. The playoffs are about you're best players playing their best. When and if rox play okc,clipps,or even portland, howard should dominate his matchup. He does that and rox go far. If he puts up his avg, their gonna have a tough time. Howard plays like he has against spurs and mavs, every team in the west are gonna have trouble with the rox big man rotation

 

Backed into the playoffs and slight upgrade at center is enough to tell me you didn't even play basketball at a jr high level.