Console Wars Thread! PS4 vs. Xbox One vs. Wii U Fight!

Heh, I love the Medusa idea.

Biggest thing I wonder about with the Kinect specifically though is the latency issue. Since they're not using actual sensors but instead just reading your body, it would seem that makes it much harder to achieve instantaneous 1:1 movement. I'm thinking right now of a fighting game someone here on the board was talking about in one of the pre-launch threads for Xbox One. The concept was pretty awesome... a fighting game entirely using the Kinect. Problem was, it was basically unplayable due to latency.

I hope they can work their way around those issues, I'm just not going to hold my breath about it is all.

Maybe Oculus Rift will be the next successful "gimmick" to succeed. I mean heck, what gamer hasn't had immersive VR in the back of their minds as a possibility basically forever?

 

Right, so are you a pastor or a door-to-door salesman ?

 

It isn't hard to meet a ton of gamers when you play online, through communities, competitions, LAN parties and/or go to events like PAX Prime. I have gamer friends going back to 1999 - and I have even dated several chicks I met online in games. And by dated I mean fornicated with, not make-beleive.

No gamer I know personally and would consider a relatively close "friend" (someone I interact with every week or two) uses backwards compatibility at all, if ever - and that is at least 30-35 gamers. The metrics don't lie, which is why both Sony and Microsoft didn't offer backwards compatibly - even disregarding the fact that emulating through software is a terrible experience to begin with.

 

Shady crap like this is why "leaks," "news" and "sources" from Neogaf cannot be trusted - http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/153933.html

There is a clear effort being made to bash Xbox One on the site, and unfortunately many tech and game blogs and "news" sites treat the information found in this online circle-jerk of a forum as legit.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a conspiracy, but there are some zealous PS4 fanboys out there with a little too much time on their hands.

 

xbox 360 arcade rules

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I just skimmed through the last few posts, and I might end up going back and responding to them, but....

DUDE....

Dude....

dude...

Please tell me you're not this delusional. This is some Bigfoot, aluminum foil, "I want to believe" kind of stuff.

And of course, completely untrue (and it isn't hard to figure out why).
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=759779
http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1wdv51/major_source_of_xbox_one_hate_on_neogaf_cboat/ (even labeled as false info)
Instead of coming up with some sort of crazy conspiracies, maybe just consider that ekim just sent this info to CBOAT (as explained in the thread). That's much more boring, but it is closer to reality. Plus, as pointed out, ekim has never been a mod (and he's generally been pro-XB).

Your source is the same place that was putting out info regarding how the XBO would have 2 GPUs (or something like that), even a few weeks before it launched IIRC. I swear it is actually a parody site, though some XB fans have somehow taken it as the truth (and they get their hopes crushed all the time). Instead of being worried about NeoGAF, I'd maybe vet your own sources a bit more.

edit: I think he had some more recent entries, but here's one where he's still thinking the XBO was "hiding" a 2nd GPU:
http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/132131.html

 

Well, I've played Panzer Dragoon Orta and Kingdom Under Fire on my 360 in the last year. I've played both King's Field games on my PS3 recently. Right now I'm switching off between playing Fifa 14 and Suikoden on my PS3 (plus Path of Exile on my PC). And as I said, I have multiple friends who do the same thing.

Is there a link you can give to these metrics? I'd like to see this information and how it was collected.

 

Yeah, I think latency is a big problem (I think Fighter Within is the game you're thinking of...check out some of those reviews). I'm not really super knowledgeable on latencies (and what would be "acceptable"), though I recall John Carmack being very critical about the Kinect for this very reason. This kind of thing has to be near-instantaneous, and unfortunately, it isn't (not even close I think).

That seems to be one limiting factor. There are several others too. Pressing buttons is just easier. Performing movements is fun at first, but gets tiring after a while (I like the Medusa idea too, but I might tire of doing it over time). It is hard to fit certain movements into certain styles of games I think. Buttons just work better. Of course, Kinect (or camera tech in general) work better in other games. Better to just focus on those games than trying to shoehorn those controls into "traditional" games IMO.

One thing that bugs me though is that many seem to think voice commands are tied to Kinect/a camera (i.e., Kinect is great because you can issue voice commands!). How do you think your smartphone handles voice commands? I agree that voice commands are awesome (and can add a lot to games, even those which rely heavily on buttons). But you don't need a camera for that. A cheap microphone will give you voice commands.

Yeah, I would be interested in some metrics too.

I do agree that the number probably isn't that high. But I think there is enough interest, assuming emulation can be obtained without too much effort. Sony and MS haven't really pushed it before because emulation would be a very expensive (and time-consuming) thing to provide. Over time, those costs go down. Additionally, as we get new generations of consoles, we have more games from previous generations we want to play. Sony continues to push PS1, PS2 and soon PS3 games to people (via streaming or otherwise). They must sell somewhat well to make up for that effort.

 

Made my decision, going for the PS4. Just waiting for Amazon to get it in stock as I'd like to use my amazon store card on it. Plus, I don't want to support brick and mortar stores :grin: j/k.


NBA 2K14 is a must despite how buggy it is. What are other good games out there? I'll play pretty much anything. Is Ghosts even worth it? Or should I go for battlefield?

 

Objective measurements like what's under the hood of these systems? How did objective measurements turn out when comparing PS3 versus 360?

And fyi, KZ frame rate drops is not a subjective thing.

 

Completely accurate.

Sure. I didn't say it wasn't. Saying KZ is better/worse than Forza/Ryse/etc. is though. You can use objective measurements to back that up, but it is difficult to say which "collection" of measurements is "better."

KZ and Forza are 1080p. Ryse is 900p.

Forza is a solid 60 FPS, while KZ and Ryse have framerate problems.

Etc.

Saying those things is fine (they are facts). Saying one is definitively "better" than the other is more difficult (if not impossible, due to opinions varying on the importance of these things).

 

In case people still care to see the differences between Tomb Raider, the full Digital Foundry face-off was just posted today:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...b-raider-definitive-edition-next-gen-face-off
Turns out the XBO version also lacks (or tones down) some effects, has lower res textures in some cases (possibly a bug though), and is in 900p for some cutscenes.

 

You said that KZ is definitely the more next gen title, not me. Im saying that neither system has an edge over the other at this point. If anything, they are pretty much even. You can point to the few multiplat games out of 12 that have better performance on the PS4...but you claim that to show a significant advantage for the PS4. How exactly is that a significant advantage?

If you want to just deal with objective measurements, then fine...but those objective measurements that should have favored the PS3 last gen showed that they are totally BS since the multiplat games all performed better on the 360.

 

As I said, I don't think there is a clear conspiracy theory behind it - but it is clear that Neogaf leans one way - and it is becoming more clear why. I don't believe that Valve or Sony has anything to do with any of it - just over-zealous fanboys was my point. Sadly, the blog community pays a ton of attention to Neogaf.

 

Rumor is Watch Dogs is going to be 720p on Xbox One and 1080p on PS4...just sayinngggg.

You don't say.

 

I said it was more impressive IMO. Of the things I value (the things I consider more "next-gen"), KZ seemed to do a better job than say Forza. But that's my opinion. I don't always care about solid 60 FPS at all times, whereas jaggies and baked lighting/sterile environments might bother me. Others will feel differently (and think Forza is more next-gen because of solid 60FPS at 1080p, or whatever), and that's fine. I'm not really interested in having that debate.

My point was essentially that. Opinions differ on what games are more "next-gen," and thus, you can't really use that as some sort of objective measuring tool for a game/platform.

Nor is there much point in that given the other details IMO. Unless those details don't work well with your narrative of course.

The 360 had better specs, and that DID show in the multiplat games. Or rather, it had better specs for certain things. But those things were the things that developers were taking advantage of in games (and they weren't taking advantage of the PS3's strengths).

*sigh*

I really hate repeating that over and over (in this thread even), but I guess it is a nice talking point for the PS4/XBO spec wars.

Well...why?

I will admit that NeoGAF tends to be made up of "hardcore" gamers. Also a community of gamers from across the world (not as US-centric as others). These are guys that don't care so much about Kinect, NFL apps, cable integration (especially if it isn't even supported in their country), etc. These are the guys that spend thousands on PCs just so they can get 1440p and 60 FPS in every game. They love tech specs. They love tracking sales. Etc. And these tend to not be strong points for the XB brand. Or rather, the XBO. NeoGAF loved the Xbox 360 when it catered to these same interests.

On top of that, MS has handled the forum horribly. There have been a number of cases, but Albert Penello's recent handling of the forum was particularly bad. Besides his laughable damage control (which bordered on outright lying), it became pretty obvious what his intentions were given that he started posting there after/around the XBO announcement, and suddenly quit posting after the launch of the system. Not a good way to get a community to support your product.

Considering NeoGAF has been called a place for Nintendo fanboys, Xbox fanboys, Sony fanboys, etc. (sometimes all concurrently), I think it is possibly more likely that NeoGAF is actually fairly neutral. Or rather, like I said earlier, they lean towards certain ideas, and it is the companies that "switch" places.

Or yeah, NeoGAF is out there to make sure MS fails in all their efforts...cuz Xbox sux!

edit: BTW, NeoGAF, like Clutchfans, is full of LOH. True story.

 

Speaking for myself and I believe a lot of the others; I appreciate your eloquence when explaining the subtle details that are being missed. Not to mention, what should already be obvious. I do think a lot of the time it falls on deaf ears (especially in this thread), but I'm guessing you already noticed.

 

Smart developers make their games according to their audience's taste. It makes sense as xboners have expressed through out the thread they are perfectly OK with and sometimes prefer 720p/30fps games. It is a win win deal for everyone.

 

I think you're onto something here.

 

Neogaf has always been very Sony centric, not just now. Even when the PS3 was 600 with no games, Ken was telling people to get second jobs and sales numbers were in the tank. MS deserves a lot of criticism no doubt, but GAF's bias wasn't a recent thing.