Add Luol Deng to the list of Cleveland trade busts

Once again, look at the quality of the draft class. How many good PF's were taken after Thompson? How many good SG's after Waiters? This year's draft class didn't even have a consensus #1 pick.

 

How long is that time span between trade and re-trade? It would be hard to flip Deng because I think there has to be a period of 2 months between trades. Please clear up.

 

Incorrect, and Dec 19th was the final date. Also you cannot combine contracts with another player that was traded. So Yes you could trade Luol Deng alone to the Rocket for Omer Asik & another salary filler.

-The only question I have is the rule about flipping a player when your team is over the salary cap which Cleveland is. Not sure if that rule applies in this case, or not.

Deng is a free agent this Summer, and while he could be S&T'ed its not likely unless they find a team that -

A. Isn't above the salary cap Apron after the trade
B. hasn't used their mid level exception or can't be signed to an exception himself

So you'd basically be looking at teams well under the cap and would probably hamper his ability to be S&T'ed at all. They might as well just prepare for him to walk for nothing. A team that is under the cap has very little incentive to offer anything to Cleveland in a S&T for Deng.

 

See above post. It only applies when combining contracts. Houston wanted to adhere to the Dec 19th deadline because they probably knew any deadline deal would involve more than 1 player.

Also, I do have questions about being able to flip a player if your team is over the cap so not sure about this one.

However the Rockets were going to be above the cap either way so I would take it that there are loopholes are this if the Rockets were planning on flipping players in a Dec 19th deal.

 

Besides we need much more than Deng to salvage a high playoff seed.
Half the team is not playing up to standard more than not (Bench). Jones/Bev/Lin are still borderline consistent and sometimes not worthy of heavy minutes.

 

The center for the raptors was still on the board and was the guy many expected them to pick in 2011. Lillard, lamb, ross, and Drummond were all on the board when they selected waiters. It's still possible to find gems in bad draft classes (i.e Chandler Parsons). They were gift wrapped high picks and still failed.

 

It's ridiculous to expect a team to draft the best player left each and every year. Even teams with great draft track records don't usually end up with the best possible player left. Eg, Morey with Royce White (anyone else would have been better) Marcus Morris (Kawhi Leonard) Patrick Patterson (Eric Bledsoe).

 

So you're going to fault the Cavs for not drafting a 20 year old foreign center?

The Cavs had Irving. They didn't need Lillard. As for Lamb and Ross, would you say that either of them have performed definitively better than Waiters? And since they wanted a SG, that takes Drummond off the table.

I think you have unrealistic expectations.

 

Well he did have the best +/- of any starter...

The Cavs problem is much the same as the Kings... consistency.

One night Tristan Thompson will give you 18 and 15, the next night 6 and 3. Granted, it is generally more like 9 and 9 then anything else. Same with Waiters. Kyrie has this problem though to a much lesser degree.

Problem #2 is that their best offensive players aren't that efficient.

Problem #3 is that they are just mediocre defensively.

When you add all that together, you get the Cavs... and the Kings.

The Kings seem closer to "pulling it together". They are 6-4 in their last 10, with wins against the Heat, Rockets and Blazers. They've also beaten the Suns, Mavs and Nuggets this year (and the Rockets again of course)... but then they're in the much tougher conference.

I think Deng is as good an addition as the Cavs could expect to have made, if they were really trying to make the playoffs. If they could move Waiters for a similar piece - veteran presence who is currently or has recently been an all-star, they should probably do that, too. If Minnesota wanted to pull the plug, they might entertain a Martin for Waiters type swap. Kyrie, Martin, Deng is a much more consistent, veteran backcourt. Cavs might have to include some type of pick.

 

Isiah Thomas took Kyrie to school last night.

 

Yeah, and I actually think you might be better off trading for someone like Thad Young as he can provide many of the same attributes that Deng can but with slightly better shooting, and you dont have to worry about him being a half season rental.

I also think starting next year Thad Young could have very nice trade value if the Rockets were looking to be players in the 2015 free agent class. I think they could move him fairly easily if needed.

However I'm not entirely sure if Hinkie really had that much interest in Asik or if that was simply a rumor out there to help his buddy here in Houston out with a negotiation stance.

 

There was an article that came out a few days ago (I think Spears with Yahoo) that said Cleveland was still in the hunt for Lebron, but I dunno... if you are only half-a#$ing the Lebron hunt and trying to setup a fall back option, you are probably setting yourself up to fail from the get go.... possible in both instances. They dont get Lebron, and lose Deng for nothing (which is why I wouldn't rule out them having a bad next few weeks, and saying... "crap... I wonder if we can flip him".

I would have to guess that them going after Deng instead of Young had to be because of a few different things-

A. Deng is a bigger name, comes with the "veteran leader" tag (which is overrated IMO), and they can tell their fans "look... we got an "All-Star"".
B. Hinkie probably knew there would be backlash from even proposing a Bynum back to Philly trade even if they were just going to waive him automatically.
C. You'd have to think that Hinkie probably wanted something back other than just a few mehh picks and a pick swap that probably wouldn't matter much to the Sixers (since they will likely have a better pick anyways). Since the deal happened so fast, you'd have to think that Hinkie probably was in no position to just rush into a deal when Young is playing so well, and will probably net more at the deadline than an expiring & pick.

Still I think its interesting that Deng has been viewed as this really attractive player that everyone was wanting to trade for and Thad Young has been sort of brushed aside as a "ok player on a unfavorable contract" when really if you think about it... they provide very similar production other than the fact that Deng is a slightly better scorer, is slightly more skilled to play the 3 spot, reputation as a good defender/leader, and has the all-star nomination.

When really you look at it and say... hmm.... I can have the nearly identical Thad Young who has 2 years left on his deal at (a very tradeable) 9.4 and 9.9 mil, or I can trade assets for Luol Deng who makes 14 mil this year and will need to be resigned at 4 years 10 mil a year + at least to retain this Summer....

I for one was kind of in love with the idea of Luol Deng but maybe the right player to trade for was right in front of our faces the entire time.....

 

Even if Deng signs elsewhere I am hard pressed to believe Cavs were anything but winners in the deal.

Wait - - if rejecto-ed (again) then just maybe they had better stick with #1 draft picks (not named Bustett).

 

Now is the time they need to flip Waiters for Turner imo

 

Not a fair comparison.

Those are all late picks.

Tristan Thompson, Waiters and Bennett are all top 5 picks. Standards of top 5 picks are way higher.

 

How is it a trade bust? Did they give up anything other than Andrew Bynum? Pretty sure getting rid of a player who you've suspended, saving yourself $6 million, and getting a starter and former all-star is a pretty damn good trade. Not sure what the three draft picks were, but Deng is a pretty good player, if anything he would be an excellent veteran leader next to Kyrie Irving.

Varejao, Sims, and Zeller ain't gonna cut it at center though.

 

I think it's the coaching. I can't help but think priggles and the Cavs are made for each other. Priggle's offense can make a scrub pg look good running that offense and Kyrie's offensive talents will be maximized. They also both don't play defense. But hey, in the end, it's a game of baskets. If you score more then your opponent, then it doesn't matter. They're not winning any ring.

 

That's an interesting thought. They really need more shooting for that system, though. Shooting at forward spots has been their big problem for two years now, and they haven't fixed it so far. Antoni would probably end up making Varejao and Deng shoot 3s all day.

But yep, with better role players, it's fun to imagine Kyrie in Antoni's system.

 

Don't look now...