LOL, your crazy, you should learn to relax a bit more. It's a very general stat. Is that stat for the Rockets or the whole league? I can't tell. Also timeouts are always called for X's and O's sometimes they are called for motivation or rest, injury, set play calls that someone has missed, coaches don't always write X's and O's during timeouts so the stat is misleading. There are other factors that involve a coach or player calling timeout. Inability to get the ball in, a near loss of possession, things like that.
I just thought I would put to bed once and for all the "McHale is bad at X's and O's" argument. And yes there are other reasons for calling a time out than to diagram plays. But it is obvious from the data that calling a time out to diagram a play actually benefits the defense more than the offense. And I do have the data on the Rockets. It might surprise you but they are seventh in the league in increased scoring after a timeout.
NO, it's not obvious because the stat is general and involves ALL timeouts during the specified time periods, it however does not take into account which coaches do not use X' and O's and which do not during these timeouts, so your conclusion that X's and O's do not work, judging from that stat is wrong. You must take into account all variables before coming to a conclusion like that and I'm willing to bet that the person making that stat did not attend every game and ask every coach if they drew up a play during the timeout. There are other reasons besides X' and O's to call a timeout.
Regardless of what the stats say, there will always be a time when the coach has to draw up a play during a timeout at some point. And instead of looking at the combined stats of every team _ just look at the stats of the good teams. Some of these garbage coaches may drag that stat down. I don't know but it's possible. And why are you limiting the X's and O's to timeout situations... I think he meant X's and O's throughout the entire game plan. At least that's what I thought he meant.
Morey wanted a coach who had no ground to stand on and he could control. That's the only reason I can think of that you go from a HOFer to a guy who bombed out as a GM and then bombed out coaching the talent he put together. Just my opinion. I think it's going to depend on how the Rockets do in the playoffs and or how long Howard keeps his mouth shut. Harden and Parsons run McHale so they'll probably never complain about him.
The Rockets use a version of R&R, like most good teams in the NBA. Instead of play calling the Rockets make real time strategic decisions during the game. Notable coaches that use versions of R&R: Spoelstra, Adleman, Pop, Phil Jackson ... So general play calling during games has little meaning for those coaches and their teams. Like Pop?
Those coaches have more experienced teams and more experienced star players as well... Big difference between running an R&R with youngsters who are new to each other than having seasoned veterans. Those coaches also have legitimate post games as well. Very hard on a young team when the defense locks up and take the things they do well away _ which results in a lot of isolation ball.
Absolutely. But if those young players want to play in the NBA they have to learn to play within the R&R system, because there is little structured offense left in the NBA except plays that come after a time out. No offense is currently competitive in the NBA other than versions of the R&R. Defenses regularly blow up any designed play as shown by the poor offensive showings after a time out.
Mmm, you've recalled old memories best left buried, but who cares about all that now? I don't even hate the Jazz now. However, speaking of old hatreds, if I arrive at the Gates of Heaven, Archangel Gabriel will say, "You must put aside the rancor you still hold before you can enter the kingdom of heaven. What is it that clouds you so?" And I'll say, "Please tell me Sloan, Malone, and Stockton didn't make it here." And Gabriel will laugh and say, "Oh no, they're in hell where they belong. John Stockton even took the Hell Express. Feel better? Then come on in!" But George Karl? Nah, not anymore.
I think folks are confused with what young players actually need which is practice, chemistry, and continuity in what you are running & who you are running that with rather than a coach calling plays the entire game that can mess with players mental triggers during an actual game. What works best is for the coach to not mess with what comes naturally to the players... its just what comes naturally to the players that needs to be fixed with practice, watching film, and tutoring from the coaches. Calling timeouts when the other team goes on a run, or the players have a lapse is a natural occurrence. It happens with the best of them, and there is a reason why teams get so many a game. However that doesn't mean that what they told the team to do in practice and in preparation for the game is going to be any different than coming out of a timeout. There isn't some magic clipboard a coach pulls out during timeouts that shows the players anything they didn't already know or pulls out some magic wand that blows the mind of all the players they have been coaching for months now (well... unless you are Brad Stevens). All they are doing in games is reinforcing what they have already been taught time, and time again in practice... its just about breaking players natural habits in gameplay... which mainly happens in practice anyways. Reading this particular thread makes me believe that there is actually a small percentage of people here that ever played organized basketball before.... which is totally fine, but just very frustrating, because if you haven't done it, its hard to explain to people why they are so wrong.
Yep. On offense (and on defense) basketball is a very chaotic and fluid game. Calling a set play on either side of the ball does not work because of double teams, switches, screens, elevator door screens, P&R etc. Play calling is a YMCA tactic that does not translate into today's NBA game.
Back in the day I played ball for a year at a JUNIOR COLLEGE (dont judge me, I'm barely 6ft and very Caucasian) and we ran this play we called "Fresh" which was pretty much just a double screen, and a back cut to either get me a open layup or our other wing an open jump shot from about 18 feet on the perimeter. We ran this play TWICE at the beginning of the game, and in the 4th quarter our PG yelled out "Fresh" and the other teams PG yells back out... "Watch the double screen".... Yeah... If Junior College players can figure out and adjust other teams plays most complex plays in 30 minutes its pretty safe to say that in the NBA... its very, very hard to out play call a team to win games. This argument that McHale isn't a good coach because he doesn't call timeouts and draw up super-complex jaw dropping plays that nobody has ever seen is just plain dumb. The things to evaluate McHale by are- -Is the system they are running being executed correctly (could be players fault, could be lack of practice, or lack of proper tutoring) -Is the system they are running conducive to the skills of the best players on the court -Are the players buying in defensively -How are they defending (zone, man to man, are the switching everything, are people getting lost, etc.) -How are they scheming defensively against the other teams best players. Notice how a good majority of the responsibility of the coaching is on the defensive end? On an NBA level that's where a majority of the coaching takes place... how do you motivate & execute defensively. Offenses are pretty basic and usually just take a good system, lots of practice, and continuity/chemistry that is built up over time.
I get your point but R&R is too vague of a term because everyone doesn't run identical R&R offenses. Some coaches push the pace and some coaches work the shot clock, some coaches don't run heavy isolation plays, some coaches run alot of P&Rs, some coaches call for a lot of 3 point shots and some don't, etc. But just the same those things are worked on in practice with X's and O's. The coaches don't just throw the players on the court and tell them to read and react to each other they teach them how they want them to read and react to each other. I don't get all into the offensive tactics, I just know from my eye test that this team is headed for a quick exit in the playoffs if they don't get it together. And you can't keep switching out the players so your coach can do a good job.
This Exactly. I am a Coach. I also played ball in high school and college. Read and React is used so often because it is so easy a child can run it, simply saying you run read and react is not a system you can run read and react within the offense of a set play when a play system breaks down.
First of all, who argued this point? Second, plays come form somewhere, not all plays come from someone else's playbook, sometimes they are made up on the spot and no they don't have to be super complex they just has to be something that the other team is not expecting. Sometimes you can catch a team off guard because they are expecting you to do something else. Saying "Come on, guys! move the ball! more motion, give me POP!" is not always gonna do it, lol. As hard as that is to believe. I'm starting to find that the Mchale for coach supporters are arguing against themselves making up points to argue that no has argued.
And you are right. Which areas to implement (practice) are dependent on personnel, the coaches preferred systems, and in McHale's case, Morey. I would feel sorry for McHale, but I imagine he knew exactly what he was getting into when he took the job. It was obvious long ago that Morey was going to limit the number of mid-range shots from the offense, and McHale has done a great job at it.
Yeah they are correct, I agree with those sentiments, but what he (doboro) is saying that the X's and O's should be "Jaw Dropping" "Never seen before" no one expects that. When you draw up a play the aim is to trick the opponent into setting up their defense a certain way, that's why you see coaches call timeouts right after a timeout has already been taken. You want to see where the other coaches mind is. If you have numerous weapons you can draw up a play that you haven't done all game and catch their defense off guard. Teams are expecting Harden ISO with us.
Yeah they are correct, I agree with those sentiments, but what he (dobro) is saying that the X's and O's should be "Jaw Dropping" "Never seen before" no one expects that. When you draw up a play the aim is to trick the opponent into setting up their defense a certain way, that's why you see coaches call timeouts right after a timeout has already been taken. You want to see where the other coaches mind is. If you have numerous weapons you can draw up a play that you haven't done all game and catch their defense off guard. Teams are expecting Harden ISO with us and we do it every time. Sometimes Harden is so good that it doesn't matter what the other team does thata why talent sometimes outweighs average coaching and you hear people say Hardn saved up tonight. ISO Harden will not work in the playoffs unless Harden becomes Michael Jordan by then. In Mchale's read and react Harden is the intiator, teams expect that.
