How people in 7 Muslim countries prefer women to dress their hair in public

:grin: I got a good laugh out of this.

 

It's an ass-backwards culture that subjugates women.

 

Which culture is that?

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Also, not all the countries in the poll were Arab. So "only 4 % of median Arabs say that a woman may appear in public without some crap on her head?" is an incorrect statement, at best.

 

spoiler fail! Sorry guys, the internet is too complicated for me.

 

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The one that doesn't allow women to drive. The one that requires 4 men as witnesses to determine rape of a women. The one that says specifically word for word that women must OBEY their husband. The one where women have to cover their hair and sometimes their face while men don't have to. The one that states that a male family member or husband has to accompany their women at all times. The one where I have to go oversees(Afghanistan) and help build a school that finally allowed girls and then defend it because some Taliban assholes love shooting up schools with girls in them.

You can play up this whole "Women are subjugated in the west also in terms of sexifyling themselves with scantily clad clothing" bull**** all you want but it doesn't fool me or majority of the posters here. Over here a women can be a ****ing stripper or the damn CEO of Yahoo. And that's how it should be.

 

I don't even know what to say because I could not have phrased it any better. And I am totally confused because I think that you have really changed your mind since you started posting here . That's really rare.

 

im a fan of the number 5

 

While I agree that the atrocities listed are heinous and have no place in this world, I don't see the country you've named in the OP. Making a case for understanding Hijab in Lebanon is not the same as endorsing idiotic acid attacks in Pakistan.

I encourage you both to separate the issues, and avoid painting all Muslim or Muslim adjacent topics with a blood red brush.

In the OP:
1) a finite number of countries are listed
2) each country listed has it's own unique culture
3) not all the countries are "Arab"
4) specifically Hijab is the topic

So, do you two have any Hijab related comments, as it pertains to Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi or Tunisia?

 

You know, using people from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan as examples of "Islam" (like fchowd just did) is like using countries like Romania and Latvia as examples of "Europe".

I mean, yeah, technically valid, but it hardly paints the whole picture.

Also, the whole "four witnesses to a rape" thing is complete bogus. People keep bandying that nonsense about because it sounds especially terrible. Not allowing women to drive is a phenomenon localized entirely to Saudi Arabia. The Taliban attacking schools with girls is something the ****ing Taliban does. Using the Taliban as an example of Islamic practice is like using Stalinism as an example of European government. Women also are not obligated to cover themselves, it is their government that forces them to do so. The fact that there are Muslim countries which do not enforce such a law suggests that it is something that occurs on a case-by-case basis (and when it does occur, it is still wrong). And yes, the Qur'an tells women to obey their husbands... just like Judaism and Christianity. An Abrahamic phenomenon, not an Islamic one. As a matter of fact... a patriarchal phenomenon, not even a religious one.

 

#5 is unpopular because it almost mocks the religion in a sense. If you are going to cover and wear a hijab (which is the head scarf a Muslim woman is obligated to wear in the religion) then please wear it with purpose. #5 is almost a, excuse my french, "half ass" job of being a Muslim Woman. It is like, yeah i am only doing this because I was told I am supposed to, but I really dont want to.

Showing hair is a big deal to a lot of old-school traditional Muslims. I honestly would prefer a woman to not wear a hijab at all if she is not comfortable in wearing one, than to wear it like #5 and feel hatred toward the religion itself.

just my 2 cents though.

 

I am sorry if you had a ban experience with Muslims before. But I can assure you, what you have just said is not truth.

 

I fully agree with that we shouldn't generalize Islam based on some Islamic countries but the problem to me is when those practices are codified as law. As Apps notes above it isn't the women who are obligated but that the law forces them to. Even while not all Islamic countries enforce such laws it is a problem that some do in the first place.

I agree also that western culture isn't always good to women. The fact that women feel they have to go out and get breast implants, starve themselves and etc.. show that there are problems with this culture. That said there aren't laws that force them to.

My own opinions regarding this are that I am not that bothered that much by what women wear as long as they aren't forced into it. That is one reason why I also don't agree with laws in some countries that forbid wearing the Hijab. I have my own personal preference but I wouldn't use the force of law to compel women to dress as I feel is appropriate.

 

Think of it in this sense--and before I go on, let me just say that I am against obligated hair coverings in every regard--but what "Islamic" countries want is a departure from Western culture and the perceived imperialism of said culture. They don't want women wearing mini-skirts or short-shorts or bikinis because those things are distinctly Western. This is, of course, the deeper, more subconscious reasoning, but there are plenty of Islamic nutjobs who just want to control women's bodies because they are threatened by women or feel insecure about them or whatever.

What it comes down to is, Islamic countries say hey, this is our apparel, that is their apparel. You are free to choose whatever you want is long as it is ours, and the reason you aren't free to choose that is because it's theirs. As I said, this is the best interpretation of the situation--unfortunately, in many cases, it's simply a bunch of bearded men trying to control what women can do because of some internalized misogyny that derives from being born and raised in an intensely patriarchal culture. All I'm trying to point out is that it isn't the same everywhere you go, so to try to paint it as a purely Islamic phenomenon is disingenuous... it occurs in different places for different reasons, and it's important to take that into account before trying to vilify an entire region, an entire demographic, and an entire religion. Saudi Arabia and Iran are the worst perpetrators of the strict dress code--they're also the worst examples of Islam in its current form.

 

I take issue with almost this entire post. I am not sure how you can say that the "hijab is not a piece of cloth", even if you're trying to make a symbolic point, here. The hijab has absolutely been reappropriated as an item of fashion, regardless of its original ideological intent. Intent does not dictate utility.

http://thetehrantimes.tumblr.com/

For you to suggest otherwise does not empower these women. Just because you may (or may not) advocate the abolition of a compulsory dress code does not necessarily grant these women equality or justice. In the meantime, it is important for us, as Westerners, not to undermine these women's efforts in appropriating a symbol of political oppression into a symbol of chicness and fashion. This is how culture evolves. Instead of trying to tear it down because there's something "wrong" with it, just let it happen on its own. The more the hijab loosens, the more likely it is to fly away.

Given that we are both savvy enough to be putting the word "Islamic" in quotes when referring to government, I think it stands to reason you'll understand that you can't really compare a modern day "Islamic" government with the sort of Islamism of yesteryear. You said it yourself, the notion of head-covering is something that has existed in the region on cultural terms for centuries, even predating the advent of Islam itself--this much is true (and I would never suggest otherwise). However, Islamic governments in their modern iteration have taken on a much different form than they have historically.

I use Iran as an example a lot on these boards, but that's because they are a very ancient country with a lot of historical examples to choose from. If you look at Iranian history for the past few hundred years, where exactly is the "political Islam" that carries with it the vestiges of today's Islamic Republic of Iran? I posit that for the past few centuries, Iranian governments (monarchies) have not concerned themselves with religious zeal at all, but rather with hegemony, power, and wealth. The Pahlavis being the last monarchy shows this full-stop. They were simply a continuation of a long line of governments that really didn't give a crap about Islam. Islam was Islam and that was it. It was a thing of the people, not of the monarchs, because the monarchs wanted to get laid and steal money from the treasury and drink booze all day.

So when we see a resurgence of Islam in political terms today, especially in the post-Qutb era and post-Shariati era, we see that political Islam takes on more than just administrative and governmental responsibilities, but also seeks to shape and dictate the direction of culture and social behavior as a whole, and in a much more involved way than "before". Of course if you go back to the eras of the Umayyads and the Abbasids, and the Ottomans pre-1800s, you will see a much more politically active iteration of Islam that did not need to culturally dictate its subjects, because the culture was already aligned with what was deemed acceptable with Islam in the first place--that being... Islam!

I know this is getting long-winded, but my point is this. There are plenty of Muslims out there who want to control women for the sake of controlling women--whether it's due to personal insecurities or some twisted, patriarchal impulse, it's happening regardless. But there are also those who view the concept of a dress code as a culturally vital thing. Fashion and clothes in general plays a very, very large part in how people perceive themselves, in the context of their own thoughts and in the context of how society views them. By controlling fashion, you control culture, by controlling culture, you control the direction your country moves in, and by controlling that, you control everything. I'm just trying to point out that it's not inherently bad to want to direct and control your own culture (though the direction that Iran and Saudi Arabia are going in is definitely bad).

 

Always so mad.

32k posts and 90% of the time its this.

fuggin tard.

 

Fine, Muslims. Happy now?

 

You do realize their are certain things that men are supposed to do in Islam right?

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Men are supposed to have beards in Islam.
Men are not supposed to look at women in dirty manner in Islam.
Etc.. Etc..

Do people follow that? Some do, Some don't. That goes for anything.

Also..
This story entails why the women of Islam are preferred to wear the Hijab.

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A British man came to Sheikh and asked:
Why is it not permissible in Islam for women to shake hands with a man?
The Sheikh said:
Can you shake hands with Queen Elizabeth?
British man said:
Of course no, there are only certain people who can shake hands with Queen Elizabeth.
Sheikh replied:
Our women are queens and queens do not shake hands with strange men.
Then the British man asked the Sheikh:
Why do your girls cover up their body and hair?
The Sheikh smiled and got two sweets, he opened the first one and kept the other one closed. He threw them both on the dusty floor and asked the British:
If I ask you to take one of the sweets which one will you choose?
The British replied:
The covered one.
The Sheikh said:
That's how we treat and see our woman.

And Women and Men are treated equally in Islam, just cause you see a lot of ignorance doesn't mean, its not there.

I don't understand how its okay for Women these days not to have any self respect and just get naked for any man but when a women "wants" or even is wearing a hijab, its "Ass-backwards".