You should read Jayson Stark's column about his ballot; it gives tremendous insight into what a clusterF this process is now; I feel sorry for the guys (like Stark) who are passionate, progressive and reasoned - they're stuck in mud. I'm sure this guy's thought process was: Biggio's getting in so I'll use that vote for someone who needs the help. (It's whate Starkl ended up doing, too.) The good news? Biggio now gets his vote next year.
BBWA is a joke. I'll never go to Cooperstown and spend my money there, and the HOF can thank the BBWA for my stance. HOF needs to find their balls and get at the BBWA. btw..., if Bags and Biggio played in the north east they would have been first ballot guys. so again, BBWA is a joke and fack them!!!!
Uhm... because he was... I mean, I don't know what else to say. His numbers are significantly better and rank higher among his position group. Bagwell is the second greatest NL first baseman of all-time (possibly third; Puljos is #1 w/o any question; Johnny Mize is in the mix), and easily has a case as one of the 10 greatest first basemen of all-time, a position with significantly higher standards than 2nd base. Biggio has the hits - but chasing those undoubtedly cost him a greater overall resume as he was a well below average player his last 3-4 years. His most impressive statistic, IMO, is the 668 doubles (fifth all-time; best among right-handers), followed closely by the enormous amount of runs he scored (some of which was accumulation due to career longevity – but he was on base a lot and was a very good base runner). His 1997 and 1998 seasons are, individually, two of the truly great (non-HR) seasons of the past 25 years (though nowhere near Bagwell's MVP season of '94). He was a durable player, among baseball's best at his peak. But his final numbers just simply aren't in the same class as Bagwell's. There’s never one simple stat but consider this: Biggio was a lead-off hitter and finished with a very impressive .363 OB% (again, knock off his last 3-4 years, and it would have been much better), Bagwell’s was .408. Bagwell simply did everything – hitting, fielding, running – better than Biggio.
I think Bags leaving early due to injury as opposed to Biggio hanging a round probably a season or two too long is a factor. Count me as someone who thinks Bags was better than Biggio but consider both of them great.
Bagwell OPS+ = 149 Biggio OPS+ = 112 Biggio never received a 1st place MVP vote. Bagwell got at least 1 first place vote 3 different seasons. Biggio was a HOF player, but he had to play a lot longer to get there.
Other than Pete Rose and Palmero no guy with 3000 hits has not made the hall of have. Everyone who is among the top 20 in runs scored is or will be in the hall of fame except maybe Arod. Everyone who is top 10 in doubles is in the hall of fame.
“Congratulations to Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas. Obviously, I’m disappointed to come that close. I feel for my family, the organization and the fans. Hopefully, next year.” - Craig
Frank Thomas before Bagwell seems facked up Saw this in a comment, this non-HOF roster could compete with any HOF roster you could build. 1) Tim Raines, CF 2) Craig Biggio, 2B 3) Barry Bonds, LF 4) Sammy Sosa, RF 5) Jeff Bagwell, 1B 6) Edgar Martinez, DH 7) Mike Piazza, C 8) Matt Williams, 3B 9) Alan Trammell, SS Some Bench - Mark McGwire, Albert Belle, Jeff Kent, Fred McGriff, Ted Simmons, Kenny Lofton (defense), Larry Walker, Keith Hernandez (defense late in game), Dwight Evans (defense) SP- Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina, Jack Morris, Tommy John Closer(s) - Lee Smith & John Franco
****ing pissed. Actually more pissed that frank Thomas made it first ballot and our guys can't even get in. To be fair, I think Thomas is a first ballot hall of famer but the other 3 are as well. In addition to agenda, laziness, and pure stupidity, Nick hit the nail on the head. Coastal Bias is really hurting these 2. I do believe both will get in but on principal I'm so angry.
Bags will never get in because of the unfounded steroids rumors have tarnished him. He's damaged goods like Clemens.
They do, but we aren't talking about a small difference. 37 points in OPS+ is a monster difference. 36th all-time vs. 600th all-time. Obviously OPS+ is just one statistic. WAR: Biggio = 64.9 Bagwell = 79.5 Like I said, Biggio was a great player. Bagwell was just a greater player. What made Biggio special was that he played every day. He hit a lot of doubles. He was versatile. He also had a great 10 year prime. That sometimes get lost with the way his career wound down with some good not great years, a couple of average seasons, and his final season where he was clearly done.
Man that Jason stark article was great and refreshing. Is it too much to ask for voters to be both that educated and unbiased? What a shame he's in such minority.
Nothing like Clemens. Piazza and Bagwell are in the same clubhouse. 60% of the voters have shown a willingness to vote for those guys, so lets see how that plays out. Question is, how many of that other 40% will change their minds? We know some are on record as saying they want to give it more time, we also have those on record saying they will never vote for those guys.
If Craig Biggio does not get into your baseball hall of fame on his second try, then your hall of fame voting system is broken.
He'll get in, and deservedly so. But the way we view the game is evolving and some of the things that would have made Biggio a no-brainer first ballot selection a decade ago (ie 3,000 hits) are being viewed against a much tougher standard. These "empty" milestones simply aren't as revered as they once were. Biggio 1988-2001: .291/.381/.436/.817; 121 OPS+ Biggio 2002-2007: .261/.324/.427/.751; 92 OPS+ (I picked 2002 because it was the first non-injury year in which his OPS+ dropped below 100) Other than his slugging % (which was buoyed by the short porch in MMP, which he abused - his doubles rate dropped significantly after 2001), he was an across the board worse player (in addition to being a liability, defensively). I'm not sure 1988-2001 Biggio sails in... but he's a better player than career Biggio (.281/.363/.433/.796/112)
