1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

With Harden out and the win today, I decided to look at the games he's missed this season.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013.

Tags:
Page 1 of 9
  1. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    I believe Harden is an outstanding one-on-one player. He is your main option if you need points on an isolation play. However, his ball stopping and lack of overall effort hurts the team on both offense and defense. I was curious and decided to look at some of the games he sat out.

    Season average:
    Team assists per game: 20.6 (20th in league)
    FG%: 47.4 (3rd in league)
    Opponent FG%: 43.2 (6-way tie for 3rd in league)

    In the games Harden has missed:

    Sat 12/21 @ DET (13-16, 6-10 home)
    W 114-97
    Team assists: 33 total
    FG%: 55.7
    OPP FG%: 44.9

    Wed 11/27 vs ATL (8-8, 4-5 away)
    W 113-84
    Team assists: 25
    FG%: 55.1
    OPP FG%: 42.7

    Mon 11/25 @ MEM (7-7, 3-4 home)
    W 93-86
    Team assists: 12
    FG%: 49.3
    OPP FG%: 41.5

    Sat 11/23 vs MIN (8-7, 2-5 away)
    W 112-101
    Team assists: 26
    FG%: 51.9
    OPP FG%: 40

    Wed 11/13 @ PHI (5-4, 4-3 home)
    L 117-123
    Team assists: 34
    FG%: 44.8
    OPP FG%: 41.7

    In the games Harden missed:
    1) 26 team assists per game which would be good for 1st in the league.
    2) FG%: 51.36 which would be good for 2nd in the league. (Would probably be first if this was True Shooting %)
    3) OPP FG%: 42.16 which would be good for 1st in the league.

    Overall, we're 4-1 without Harden but this evidence is all anecdotal and the sample size is very small. PLEASE take it with a grain of salt. Harden has been playing through some tough injuries while adjusting to many new teammates... and of course each game itself has its own intricacies and unique conditions. These statistics do NOT tell the whole story if you don't watch the games. The teams we played weren't very good either record-wise.

    Obviously the team plays different without Harden... Is the team better without him? Probably not because his offensive talent alone puts him in the top 1-2 shooting guard discussion and we've seen improved man defense from him this season. This is just some interesting information to look at & talk about... perhaps it's a trend we should keep an eye on. There MAY be a more cost-effective and better fit for us at the 2-guard position.

    REFERENCE: Stats were used from NBA.com and ESPN.com.
     
    #1 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
  2. smr6

    smr6 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    219
    You definitely see a difference in how we play without him out there, but at the same time it's not like the games he missed were against top tier teams.
     
    #2 smr6, Dec 22, 2013
  3. HardenWay

    HardenWay Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    57
    How many of those teams are above .500? None of them.

    Please...get off of this stupid ****ing topic.
     
    #3 HardenWay, Dec 22, 2013
  4. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    Harden's Clutchfans account confirmed.
     
    #4 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
  5. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    Wait, before I take you seriously, did you read the post? I said not to look too much into it. Also, Minnesota was about .500 before we played them. Thanks for reading! Or not, I guess.
     
    #5 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
  6. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    *Above. I really need an edit button.
     
    #6 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
  7. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,542
    Likes Received:
    7,752
    I wasn't aware that Clutchfans had Harden Only Fans.
     
    #7 RedRedemption, Dec 22, 2013
  8. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,856
    Likes Received:
    133
    This team would not go far if they keep playing a style where they keep jacking up shots and not utilize Howard more. Go inside is more effective than jacking up shots.
     
    #8 Yao4REAL, Dec 22, 2013
  9. HardenWay

    HardenWay Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    57
    Discuss the issue you troll.

    I've been a Rockets fans for almost a decade before Harden played an NBA minute.
    To check my post history before saying **** like that. I consistently talk about the flaws Harden has and where I want to see him improve. I've called him out on his defensive effort, posted in depth about his poor defensive fundamentals and bad habits.

    I am one of the MINORITY on this message board that as the ability to a) understand the game and b) be objective and constructive when talking about all players.

    You compare the performance of the team without Harden without taking into consideration all of the indicators. The facts are those games were against **** TEAMS!

    People are comparing the Pacers game to the Pistons when the Pistons are under .500 and allow 13 points more per season than Indiana.

    The reason we played bad against the Pacers and good tonight is this team can get away with their flaws against bad teams but against an elite defense those flaws are exposed.

    Anyway, you can't go around ignoring the facts of an argument and start attacking people based on a damn username.

    Oh, The Timberwolves have been hovering around .500 all season, at the time they were 2 games over .500. A game or so difference doesn't make your crazy argument any more valid. Not sure how getting a record wrong by a game or 2 means I didn't read your thread either.

    Harden has played through a bad ankle injury and was going to try and play the second half because of our injuries. He has won many games for this team off of his own play.

    Here is a lesson for everyone. How about you all stop being so angry and negative and appreciate the things our players do well. I'm sick of this, 'If player a wasn't on this team we would win the next 10 rings in a row' attitude.
     
    #9 HardenWay, Dec 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  10. HardenWay

    HardenWay Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes Received:
    57
    Where did I say anything like that?

    I love the Houston Rockets but I hate this entire fanbase. Makes me sick how ridiculous you guys are. There I said it, I hate the Houston Rockets fanbase.
     
    #10 HardenWay, Dec 22, 2013
  11. hamsession

    hamsession Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    12
    Should have been 5-0 if McHale knew how to coach when up by 3 with seconds to go.
     
    #11 hamsession, Dec 22, 2013
  12. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    Read my entire post and tell me where I say we're definitely a better team without Harden. Read my entire post and tell me I say we don't need Harden or that the teams we played were good. Read my entire post and tell me I didn't say that there are obviously many factors to take into consideration for each game and that I'm just opening the floor to discuss how we play differently NOT better.

    Or continue to tell us how you're so great and awesome. We would like that a lot.
     
    #12 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  13. Captain Hook

    Captain Hook Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    616
    I would like to see Harden play off the ball more, but I know we don't have the PG for him to do so because of him being the primary ball handler.

    I would love to see more backdoor cuts and off ball screens from him. That Deron Williams rumor has me going. I think he would be a perfect fit for a big 3 1/2.
     
    #13 Captain Hook, Dec 22, 2013
  14. jacoby

    jacoby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    3,954
    Likes Received:
    3,692
    And if Anderson didn't hit that miracle heave would you still be blaming McHale?
     
    #14 jacoby, Dec 22, 2013
  15. dje243

    dje243 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    225
    Inside out without Harden > Outside in with Harden

    Inside out with Harden > Inside out without Harden

    In my mind it's more about the game plan. With no Harden they basically have no choice but to use Dwight as a first option. Dwight is shooting 60% in December. Harden being in the game should only make it more difficult to double Dwight.
     
    #15 dje243, Dec 22, 2013
  16. Karolik

    Karolik Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,405
    Likes Received:
    151
    There are a few. They got exposed when harden was criticized after the Phoenix game
     
    #16 Karolik, Dec 22, 2013
  17. hamsession

    hamsession Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    12
    No because McHale would have made the right coaching move by instructing to foul before that shot.
     
    #17 hamsession, Dec 22, 2013
  18. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    Yes, if Harden can put away his ego and buy into a team-oriented offense centered mainly around both him and Dwight, we'd easily play up to our potential and be legitimate contenders.
     
    #18 rofflesaurus, Dec 22, 2013
  19. Rockets12

    Rockets12 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,911
    Likes Received:
    636
    I love how whenever anyone gets called out as a player only fan their immediate reaction is to say they have been a fan of the rockets for over a decade. Now it might be true in some cases, but I just find it funny.

    Back on topic: We played great today, I guess that means we should stop playing Asik, Lin, Beverley, and Harden. Look how well we did without them!
     
    #19 Rockets12, Dec 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  20. Wapzoe

    Wapzoe Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    86
    This thread is awful.

    You make superficial analysis, handpickinh statistics to suit your argument. . Then present so many caveats that basically make your argument invalid, before using those caveats as defense to anyonr who counters your point.

    Are you a troll or just a hater?
     
    #20 Wapzoe, Dec 22, 2013
    1 person likes this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 9

Share This Page

Style
ClutchFans Dark

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Rockets Content

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now