Either start Lin, or bring in a new starting PG, Bev ain't cuttin' it.

Fair enough. It just becomes hard to distinguish between a LOF and those who want the best for the Rockets.

And by the way, I agree with some of the things they say about McHale's coaching or lack thereof and I'm not his biggest fan seeing as I started a Fire McHale thread even before Lin joined the Rockets but their opinions are so extreme and they just throw conspiracy theories around that it really prevents any logical discussion.

 

I hope this rumor is true. lin to chicago.
http://www.latinopost.com/articles/2207/20131218/nba-nba-trade-rumors-nba-trade-rumors-2013-houston-rockets-houston-rockets-trade-omer-asik-jeremy-lin-jeremy-lin-trade-jeremy-lin-stats-nba-trade-deadline-2014.htm

 

LOF's, Jlin cannot start because of the following.
1. James Harden doesn't play enough D and neither of them can stay in front of a refrigerator
2. Contrary to LOF's opinions he's not significantly better than Bev on offense and Bev's D is significantly better than his. Please take a look at what D. Lillard has done against everyone other PG's since PBev guarded him last week.
3. He's now injured more than playing (go back to last years playoffs)
4. He can only go right, if you force him left, he picks up his dribble and trys to shoot a fall away jumper.
5. Jumps in the air with no idea of what he's going to do with ball, this is straight high school guard play.

I love PBev's D, however, he has his limitations on offense, especially when he's not attacking the basket and hitting WIDE OPEN 3 pointers.

 

I don't think you can equate what goes on at jeremylin.net to what goes on here on clutchfans.

But you can also say that anybody who tries to discuss basketball here with a positive light on Lin, or question anything on McHale, Beverley or Harden gets called LOFs. Even if they were here way before Jul 2012.

Personally I think it's fair you draw a line. Saying McHale has been a mediocre coach is a fair comment (he can be slightly better or slightly worse than mediocre, but he is definitely not a top coach at this stage of his coaching career). Having no sympathy for McHale during his personal life issues is not ok. Calling Harden out for his defense or his iso tendencies is fair, but calling him to be a 6th man is laughable. Saying Beverley is a pretty good back-up PG and has a role on the Rockets for his defense, but that overall his defense is somewhat overrated and has some flaws is fair, and arguing that Lin should start over him for his offense and better all-round game is fair. Calling Beverley a monkey obviously is not.

Likewise, saying Lin is not an all-star or does not deserve to be ranked above Harden, Howard or even Parsons on the Rockets is fair. To say that he is a scrub, should go back to the DLeague, sucks etc etc is probably off the market (yet that happens a lot here also).

To call out LOFs when they go overboard with some biased and one-sided comments is fair. To call anyone that has a positive comment on Lin or a negative comment on Beverley, Harden or McHale a LOF, then go ahead to denigrade that person by whatever that goes on at jeremylin.net or assuming he's calling out "that's racist" remarks or saying they've never watched basketball before Jeremy Lin came off the bench against the New Jersey Net in New York is not ok.

I mean, you yourself should know. You started the Official Fire McHale Thread, You should've seen how many posters get lumped into the LOF group just because they think McHale sucks, and thought so even before Lin was a Rocket.

I also think it's ok to think Lin should start over Bev. You can argue either way due to their different strengths and weaknesses, but it's hard to argue "conclusively" that Bev should start. I think it's fair for you to 'think' that the team is best served with Lin coming off the bench, but it is no where near conclusive.

When Lin started earlier in the season with a full strength Rockets team (ie Harden, Parson not injured, only injury of course was Beverley), the Rockets had a 3-1 record with quality wins at home against Dallas, away against the Jazz and away against Portland, with the only loss away against the Clippers. Without Lin starting, we've proceed to lose away against Dallas, home against the Jazz, away against Portland and at home against the Clippers.

So basically we lost all 4 games to the same team without Lin starting, and without a more favorable home/away advantage.

It's a very small sample size that isn't in any way conclusive, but likewise I don't think anyone can conclude with this type of anecdotal evidence that the Rockets team is better off with Lin playing off the bench.

 

Your opinions on 2. is questionable, both on defense and unfortunately Beverley doesn't get to guard Lillard every game. He gives up a lot of points to other players not name Lillard.

3. Lin played all 82 regular season games last year. Right before the playoffs started last year, you could've said Harden was more injury prone than Lin based on the season. It depends on where/how you want to cut it.

4. Lin has improved significantly going left. Calvin Murphy says you only need to go left 20% of the time to keep the defense honest. Lin has done more than that. Harden can't go right. Beverley doesn't even get to the rim going left or right, he needs to put up low percentage floaters 7 ft from the rim.

5. Well, Lin is in the NBA and not in high school. Not sure what your assertion is. He's a scrub? Is he better off passing the ball off passing the ball of 80% of the time he touches it like Beverley, doing nothing with the ball, so he never gets caught doing anything hard or making a turnover?

Your assertions really are awful. This is not a post to knock Beverley, but if you want to hold Beverley to a similar standard to Lin, then very little of your argument holds up. Especially when you make a blanket statement that Lin is not better than Beverley offensively when any data will tell you likewise, and you argument Beverley is better than Lin on defense solely on an outing against Lillard last week.

Not sure if you recall when the Rockets beat Portland away earlier in the season, Lillard scored 15 of his 22 points on Beverley, and 7 on Lin.

Again, not a knock on Beverley, Lillard will do that to people, when he's on. And it wasn't that Beverley didn't play good defense. But your argument has many flaws.

 

Edits bolded

 

But the problem for many people on this site is that posts by "BackNthDay" will be accepted as ok simply because it's not favorable to Lin, but when someone actually tries to discuss the issue in a more detailed way and it's more favorable to Lin, it will be considered a LOF post that mirros whatever goes on a jeremylin.net.

 

Coach Nick of BBALL breakdown disagrees with you. He is on youtube and you can see Lin going to his left in a very agile manner and very quickily. Nick also shows you his defense. Its team defense so you probably are not aware of it. You statements are mostly false.

 

Yep. But that bias is fundamental to this site so don't expect things to change. I'm interested in what the posts will be like once Lin is finally traded and the mods decide they no longer have to keep discussions fair and balanced.

 

This is why I question ur basketball knowledge. You keep saying "Lin should start, he's stronger offensively". But even if that was true, it still doesn't mean he's a better basketball player. Right now Bev's scoring but most nights he doesn't need to score to be effective. He does all the intangibles that help win games. On the other hand, Jeremy Lin's only real strength is scoring. He's too turnover prone to handle the rock as a PG, and he's a liability against quicker guards. In addition to the fact Bev's defense is needed more than Lin's offense, Brooks to me is more of a threat offensively than Lin. So why does this team need Jeremy Lin at this point?

 

No, JLin is not starting because he is not in Rocket's long term plan and getting ready to be shipped out. The Rocket's don't want him in with the starters to mess up the chemistry when he's gone.

 

Nah, I think at this point of both careers JLin is better than AB offensively. Im still waiting on more games for Bev in terms of his sample size. Bev played really well last night, hopefully he can sustain that. But you are right, for 15mil a year next year the Rocket's really dont need Lin. They should ship him out to get other assets because Bev and AB is good enough to be the PGs

 

Really? His only strength is scoring? What Lin have you've been watching with the Rockets? He doesn't get steals? He doesn't get assists? Do you want to compare Beverley's assists to Lin's? He doesn't take pressure off of Harden by being an additional playmaker/penetrator? He doesn't become one of the main guys on the team when Harden is out to take up the slack? There are PGs who start that have too many turnovers, and there are stretches where Lin isn't all that turnover prone. Beverley has been shown that he's not great against some guards as well, they blow by him. I love Beverley, he's a tough, hard-nosed, guy, a good guy, a real asset to the team. Lin is needed to get Harden some rest and add some sort of organization to the second unit as he's presently assigned. But Beverley, while an excellent defender, is not a complete wall where opponents are usually shut down. Sometimes they are, sometimes not. You don't have to like Lin, his fans or his game but to say his only strength is scoring is way wrong.

 

We'll see if that's the case or not. That's a possibility now. If he isn't traded, then it is because of other reasons. I think he could be traded but I don't know if he will be traded.

 

I love this GARM! I have nothing against Jlin and I like when he's contributing at a high level. But LOF's act as if that is every night and he doesn't have inconsistency's like PBev. PBev has been on an NBA roster for a little over 1 year if that and Jlin has been on NBA rosters for how long? Also, LOF's conveniently leave out the fact that if we based it on a per dollar basis, PBev would be a SIGNFICANTLY more valued asset. I would like to see those statistics if someone has those available?

I like that the fact that there are no hard feelings between either of them as there are between their fans.

 

Lin's team defense is better than Bev's. however I will agree bev's a better overall defender, but the difference is overstated.

Lin's offense is significantly better than Bev's, much higher shooting percentages overall and on threes, and also a better foul drawer and shoots it at a higher percentage.

I don't understand why you haven't noticed that lin has been going left very well this season. He's vastly improved in that area.

 

Lin's assist/to ratio is 1.5 , bev's is 1.9, both is pretty bad, but Lin's is not that much worse, especially considering the points he puts up.

 

Now put that on a per dollar basis, PBev clearly gives you better value for your dollar and the Rockets will need some of Lin's money to pay Chandler Bang!!

 

Addressing your last comment first, I don't have any problems with anybody being a fan of somebody. I personally find myself rooting for AB because of that memorable playoff performance awhile back. I'd like him to succeed but I'm not going to discredit Bev because AB is my favorite player. Thats what Lin fans tend to do.

As far Lin, he's only effective when he's hitting his shots. If his shots off he's useless. I can't recall Lin getting a big rebound, block or assist to win a game? However, I can recall him turning the ball over and air balling shots during crucial stretches of games. He's basically been a turnover gremlin since Insanity. Thats probably why McHale trust Bev because he protects the ball better than Lin. If Bev keeps like he has then we may not even need Lin anymore

 

Can you just STFU already? How dumb can a LOH be?

Fact of the matter is this. Who would demand a higher contract right now. BEV or Lin. Your stupidity lies there.