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Acquiring Contracts beyond 2015? No Problem.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bilaal14, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. bilaal14

    bilaal14 Member

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    All the fuss about not getting a contract that extends after 2015 is overblown. You think Kevin Love leaves $25-$30 million on the table and signs outright with any other team like Dwight Howard did this off-season? I think NOT.! These guys are young and in for a HUGE PAYDAY.

    Any deal involving Love or LMA is going to have to be a Sign and Trade, given that the their respective teams will not want to just "let them walk" to the team of their choice for nothing in return.

    So picks and valuable (worthy) contracts are all fair game as of right now.

    Thoughts?

    Keep in mind that this Rockets team is in "win now" mode, and needs to assemble a squad that could win this year and beyond, so getting talent back that will bolster their chances is priority #1, more having just cap space when 2015 comes around.
     
  2. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    What's the point of a sign and trade to either us or the players? they don't get any more money for it. And their respective teams have no power to stop them 'walking', that's the whole point of unrestricted free agency
     
  3. basketballholic

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    Agreed, any acquisition of Love or any other superstar is most likely to come through trade rather than outright signing.

    However......the threat of multiple teams having cap space and being able to sign a guy outright is what can cause a team that has the superstar pending free agency under contract to make a deal more quickly.

    And it has to be the right time to acquire contracts. For instance when a guy is possibly in play, like Love and Melo may be at the deadline, then they you don't want to acquire long-term contracts unless it is for other superstar players that you can use to flip for the superstar that you want.

    However, once the trade deadline has past and no deal for Love or Melo went down, then the next opportunity comes in the off season. You have to hold your cards at that time and see if a deal gets done. If it doesn't then you can go in on some more short contracts (1 year) that are essentially expiring.

    Trading for a superstar typically involves one of two things. You either get a superstar by trading a couple of really good players from another contending team or you acquire a superstar by trading expiring salaries, picks, and young talent, and perhaps one player that is on a value contract and outperforming his contract.

    You don't trade for a superstar by sending out mediocre players making $4-9 million per season who have 2-4 years left on their deals.
     
  4. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    You can't just SnT with any team that has a superstar who wants to go onto your team. The trade becomes that much more likely when the THREAT of an outright departure in unrestricted free agency is looming. Therefore, we don't have to clear MAX space to threaten other losing teams with superstars who might bolt. We only need to clear up, say 15M in space so that the other superstar can make his bluff convincingly.

    THEN, when the other team starts to fear losing their player for nothing; THAT'S when you're able to entertain SnT as a realistic possibility.

    So yes, Courtney Lee on the books for 6M in 2016 is actually going to be a problem and the kind of contract that we would later on have to pay another team to take off our hands. You don't wanna go down that road.
     
  5. HardenWay

    HardenWay Member

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    I don't think we will get Aldridge. Portland may not be for real this year but have turned it around for sure.

    Love is the guy, but I like having Lin and Bev, also I feel going after Love means Jones would have to go out...we won't be able to resign him if he continues to improve, with parsons getting paid.

    Maube the smart option is to go with more depth on the bench over the third star.

    I also rate out changes of drafting a really good player with a pick in the middle of the first round.
     
  6. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    Aldridge's decision to leave will depend entirely on their post season performance and projections.
     
  7. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    You need to brush up on the last CBA because you're about 2 seasons behind. SNT is pretty much useless to players.
     
  8. duluth111222

    duluth111222 Member

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    I think the OP meant trades, not S&T. For example, the trade deadline in Feb 2015. If Love or LMA made it clear that they will bolt in FA, their teams would have to consider trades in order to get something in return.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The question really should be - In the Summer of 2015, would the Rockets be able to move a 30 year old Courtney Lee with one year left on his deal at 5.67 million as an expiring contract for no salary back in return if they had to?

    I think they could, but what they would probably have to do is plan on around the February trade deadline of 2015, packaging Lee with a very good draft pick for an expiring contract that ends in 2015. Some team (like the Rockets in prior years) should look to bite at that chance to get a draft pick for taking on a year of salary if they are not needing cap space the prior year.

    So yes, taking back Courtney Lee alone is not a deal breaker for free agency in 2015, but you better have a ton of picks salvaged to be able to move his contract if necessary, and you better not make it a habit this year and next of taking back more salary past 2015.
     
  10. basketballholic

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    This team, since Morey has arrived, is just not in the habit of giving away assets for nothing just to move a contract off the books. It's not the way Morey does business. I don't expect him to start now. I simply can't see a Bass/Lee deal with those guys coming here. Would be totally out of character for Morey.
     
  11. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    He mentioned Love not wanting to leave $30 mil on the table to come here. He means SNT. Any player leaving the franchise that holds their bird rights will be losing money on a max deal. There's no way around it unless they make the team trade them to their desired destination.
     
  12. acshen

    acshen Member

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    Honestly I agree. People need to understand more about the CBA if they're going to post about trade proposals and strategic thinking lol.
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    As for the "would Love leave 30 million on the table" question-

    Yes he would leave Minnesota and sacrifice his bird rights if it meant moving to a overall better situation for Kevin Love. Everyone is capable of choosing a winning situation and a desirable location over staying with a sub-par employer (assuming Minnesota is still considered sub-par at the time).

    Keep in mind that this number is just accounting for an additional year more than anything. Kevin Love and his agent will probably weight that vs. going to a winning situation elsewhere for less financial insurance.

    What they will be banking on is that in 2019 he will still be as valuable as he is in 2018. If they answer is yes, he would be, or should be, you move to the better winning situation. That winning situation also affects what your valuation would be in a 4 to 5 year window.

    Unless Minnesota becomes a contender in the next 18 months I fully expect Kevin Love to get traded at the Feb 2015 deadline to a new destination, or to leave Minnesota in free agency in the Summer of 2015.
     
  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Out of character yes. However, if you said this to Morey he would probably respond with a response that included the name Thomas Robinson (despite what people think on here, I would assume Morey thought of him as a nice young asset they let go for next to nothing).

    If they feel like they are a viable destination for either Kevin Love or LMA in February of 2015 (and probably have good Intel as well behind closed doors), they will sacrifice a pick all day every day to move a contract.
     
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Bad contracts are like cheeseburgers. One or two normal sized one every once in awhile wont kill you, and you make a few extra trips to the gym to work it off. However you don't want a steady diet of eating them if you want to be able to take your shirt off at the beach.
     
  16. cjtaylorpt

    cjtaylorpt Member

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    To add (or counter?) your argument: We are in win now mode, but not at the expense of upgrading to "best team in the league" status. This may or may not be directly at the OP, but I feel like people keep coming up with scenarios where we are in desperate need of "winning now" and come up with ideas where making upgrades and having flexibility is thrown out the window after a deal is made.

    Consider this, Dwight and Harden are on long term contracts. Sure, there is a window. Sure, that window is very small in the NBA (see OKC). But, going all in for a player that puts us in the top 3 status is not worth just giving away our most "liquid" assets (ex: draft picks) or not trying to get every "liquid" asset we can.

    Our current team, if nothing changes, has a shot to compete this year. We will get better next year, as well (without any upgrades -- barring any major injury).

    The point I am trying to make is, Les is willing to pay money for a championship team. Les is willing to go over the luxury threshold. But, not by a lot if we are just barely getting into the top 3 bracket. What Morey is trying to do is put us as the team to beat. You do not do that by going all in for just complimentary parts. There will be an opportunity for these big name players. Readiness and availability is key when seizing an opportunity. If we are stuck with a player (let's just say) Bass and Lee when we could've had a higher draft pick, that matters (big time). This is the first year of this core group of Dwight/Harden/Parsons. There will be a time to go all in, trust me. But, I don't think the opportunity has presented itself just yet.
     
  17. basketballholic

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    You can consider the TRob deal a trade. TRob for Dwight and 4 second rounders. That's a good trade.

    Would Morey use second rounders to dump salary? Yes. But to send out first rounders to dump a salary that you knew when you acquired would be a potential problem down the road. Morey doesn't do the deal to begin with.

    The reason why this team is in the situation it is in is because:

    1. Morey doesn't acquire guys that he can't move quickly if he needs to.

    and

    2. When Morey makes a mistake in an acquisition he dumps the player early before it becomes a huge problem.
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think it is overblown because it means standing pat in the 2014 offseason and treading water in the '14-'15 season for just a longshot chance at a big star in 2015. I don't think we'll waste a season of Harden and Howard like that. Betting everything on Love wanting to leave the Twolves, and wanting to come to Houston specifically is not a great prospect. Sure, if it works we'll be great. If it doesn't work, we've wasted a lot of valuable time and opportunities. Morey will want contracts that keep flexibility, but I'm betting he tries to improve as much as possible in the 2014 offseason instead of waiting around.
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Well if you put it that way (again... modulating the argument) you would essentially be looking at trading the expiring contract of Courtney Lee and a 1st round pick for 4 years of Kevin Love or LaMarcus Aldridge which is a steal.

    Whats the difference in what you said, Trading T-Rob for Dwight Howard & picks that will never be conveyed & Euro players that will never come to the NBA and trading an expiring contract & a pick for Kevin Love or LMA?

    Obviously the Dwight situation is better but its still a win either time.

    Look, I'm not advocating the PROPOSED deal (still waiting till final deal to judge), and I think it sucks, but what I am saying here is that if they do want to do this deal, and they do also want to be players in 2015 for Love or LMA, they better plan on having to move Lee's contract in the future by any means necessary if they think they are getting Love in free agency.

    Thats the price you have to be willing to pay, and if Morey is planning down the road (which we all know he is), he's got to be thinking about what he's going to do with the Courtney Lee contract down the road or here much sooner. If he's doing this deal, he's obviously got a plan in place down the road.
     
  20. basketballholic

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    Once again, Lee doesn't expire in 14/15. He expires in 16. And if Love is traded, he'll be traded by the 15 trade deadline at the latest. There is no incentive for Love to agree to a S&T other than possibly destination. And there is no incentive for Minny to take on a year's worth of salary to S&T Love rather than have cap space. Minny is a small market team. Money does make a difference.
     

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