And which of those previous 1st option players played like previous 1st options last postseason? Ray Allen hasn't been a 1st option in half a decade, and he isn't capable of being one anymore. Bosh never had any success as a 1st option, and he was outplayed by the opposing big in every series from the 2nd round and on. Would you trade Bosh, Wade and Allen of last year for Shaq of 2000-02?Would you trade Bosh, Wade and Allen of last year for Shaq/Mourning of 2006? Would you trade Bosh, Wade and Allen of last year for Parker, Manu of 2007? Would you trade Bosh, Wade and Allen of last year for Allen, Pierce and Rondo of 2008? Would you trade Bosh, Wade and Allen of last year for Gasol, Odom, Bynum of 2009-2010? No, you wouldn't. For the third time, let me know when you want to discuss how guys actually played as opposed to the names on the back of their jerseys. You keep mentioning how guys did in seasons past. Why don't you want to discuss what guys actually did last year? Last year Bosh wasn't playing like a #1 option. He was getting outplayed by the likes of Boozer and David West. Allen hasn't played like a #1 option in this decade. Shaq was never in Kobe's supporting cast. You have it backwards. And no Miami player outside of LeBron on last years team played better tha Gasol played in 09/10. Bosh did not play better than Odom played during the same time-frame. Whoever you want to pick as the 4th option didn't play better than Ariza or Artest in 09/10. Fisher was a more respected shooter than whoever Miami had a PG. I haven't even mentioned Bynum, who although hurt, would have been more impactful defensively than any big on Miami's roster (they let Hibbert look like Ewing).
I don't believe they played starters minutes...and that's kind of important and what I was implying. Let's list both teams side by side from best player to worst player and you will understand why Lebron is the best. Jordan could only dream of taking a team like that cavs team to the Finals.
Only with people that want to hate. Wade isn't the Wade he once was. Bosh has been incredibly inconsistent. They are still great complementary players to have, but you can't count on them every night. It is important to remember nobody does it alone, including MJ & LBJ. They've needed all-stars and big moments from role players in order to have great team success.
I don't get why folks discount Scottie Pippen, one of the best to every play the game. Jordan never won squat without Pippen -- the All NBA, All-Defense, "50 Greatest", utility player who could do everything on the court. James has yet to play with someone like prime Pippen. Declining Wade doesn't compare. And the Bulls always had a 3rd player to complete the triangle. First it was Horace Grant, then it was Dennis Rodman. On top of it, those Bulls teams had model benches, often stronger than the second units of their competitors. The second trio of championships had Ron Harper on the team. Harper remade himself into a premier defender when Jordan in-retired. Jordan had a hell of a team around him. Those teams were a testament to both individual basketball talent and to team building by the front office and Phil Jackson.
Ofcourse they won't play like 1st options now because they collectively took reduced roles for wins. But if it weren't for Ray Allen Lebron wouldn't even have a 2nd ring. It's easy to downplay how good these guys are now that they've taken lesser roles lol. Stupid question. I'd EASILY take Miami's 3 over any of those guys. Who wouldnt? You'd be a idiot not too. Wade, Bosh & Allen ALONE could already make the playoffs without Lebron. ALL of those guys are HOF players still capable of playing at high levels. The problem is when Miami wins Lebron gets ALL the credit in the media, and people like you buy into this. You probably don't want to discuss this. Ray Allen was the SOLE reason Miami won the championship last season. San Antonio was literally BACKING OFF Lebron daring him to take jumpers lol. That's how bad Lebron was at that point. At no point would anybody let MJ or Kobe take wide open jumpers in a final series. Ray Allen's shot saved Lebron's legacy Bosh didnt play better than Odom? Wade didnt play better than Gasol? Dude your delusional Bosh is HOF player. Wade's a HOF player. Gasol is NOT a HOF player. Miami's collectively better than that Lakers team. Please explain how Gasol/Bynum/World Peace was more talented than Wade/Bosh/Allen......
LeBron only has two rings and two finals MVPs. Kareem has more rings and MVP trophies and the same amount of finals MVP awards. If LeBron was to drop dead today there would be a legitimate argument about who had the better career.
Ha ha ha - not in the West. They would be in the lottery. Actually the Heat were a lottery team with a younger Dwyane Wade, not the diminished, beaten down version that currently shows up. They'd be lucky to win 30 games. Actually I know you probably don't care, but if you want to look statistically at who's carrying their team the most, the best stat is probably win shares/48 min - the top 15 such marks in history speak for themselves: HTML: 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .3399 1971-72 MIL 2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .3256 1970-71 MIL 3. Wilt Chamberlain* .3251 1963-64 SFW 4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .3225 1972-73 MIL 5. LeBron James .3220 2012-13 MIA 6. Michael Jordan* .3211 1990-91 CHI 7. LeBron James .3183 2008-09 CLE 8. Michael Jordan* .3174 1995-96 CHI 9. Michael Jordan* .3077 1987-88 CHI 10. LeBron James .2987 2009-10 CLE 11. LeBron James .2983 2011-12 MIA 12. David Robinson* .2960 1993-94 SAS 13. Connie Hawkins* .2934 1968-69 MNP 14. Chris Paul .2925 2008-09 NOH 15. Michael Jordan* .2920 1988-89 CHI On a certain level, I don't mind these trolling Lebron threads because it gives you a chance to re-examine how epic his performance has been.
Both those 3's came from MJ assists. Ray Allen's shot came a LBJ brick in a elimination game. Try again
Ummm.... Paxson pass came from Horace Grant. Edit: Last FG made in game 6 was LBJ to give them 101-100 lead.
oh come come now...if you do your homework, you will realize from a playing style Lebron is definitely Pippenesque....I think people are fixated on the hype and magnitude of Jordan's career in relation to a Kobe or a Lebron when they compare the two....Im just focussed on playing style..defense, etc.....I think skys the limit for Lebron as far as career goes....he's already a better player than Kobe ever was...but his resume is obviously not complete so Jordan comparisons are a bit premature....I only compare Lebron to two people right now and that is Pippen and Oscar Robertson...people underrate Pippen and thus think its an insult to compare pippen to Lebron...but I do it as a compliment because Pippen was until Lebron arrived the best 2 way player ever....
It's Pippenesque, and if you do your homework, Jordan's plalying style is really more Von Waferesque.
This works both ways. Lbj is Karl Malone with Kobe's athletic abilty. He's playing finesse because of today's rules on D but the reality is he's 3 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than the guys hes guarding. If LBJ played in MJs rules he could be physical and rough people up on D..and maybe even on O. I dont care how good MJ is, if LBJ backs him down onthr post he's gonna get dunked on.
And Ray Allen is clearly past his prime yet you felt he was worth mentioning as part of Lebron's "stacked" supporting cast. Who cares if Malone retired the following season? In 2004, he was the Lakers' starting PF and averaged about 33 mpg. Payton averaged 34.5 mpg for the Lakers. Last year, Ray Allen averaged about 26 mpg. In the NBA, it's all about relative strength. It doesn't matter that Bynum/Odom aren't HOF players...Bynum was still one of the best centers in the league at the time, and Odom was one of the most versatile SF's. Odom/Bynum/Gasol was arguably the NBA's best frontcourt (Celtics' Pierce/Garnett/Perkins was also great). There's a difference between who those players were and who those players currently are. Ray Allen can't take over a game anymore.
Wade's poor play last postseason wasn't because he took a reduced role. It was because he was injured. Bosh didn't get outplayed by every opposing big because he took a reduced role. You are touting Bosh as a 1st option star when he was getting outplayed by guys like Boozer and David West. If it weren't for Robert Horry plenty of star players would have less rings. No one wins alone, but you are pumping up LeBron's help and dumbing down the help others had. The bottom line is we can go through the last 20 years and list multiple rosters with more talent or overall balance than Miami. But you don't want to discuss what guys actually did last year. Folks that actually watched how they played last season. Lol...right...... In the playoffs, no they didn't. Which played like a HOF player last postseason? Actually he is, and he actually played like one when LA won titles. The explanation was displayed in their level of play in those respective seasons, which you don't want to discuss.
Ray Allen is past his prime, true. But he's still one of the best 3pt shooters in the game currently. He's still a threat and capable of going off any given night. Payton and Malone weren't near the player Allen is now, when they were with the Lakers. C'mon dog, you lookin real silly. Relative Strength, um ok The difference is Bynum/Odom were replaceable. Without Wade bailing Lebron out, the Heat don't win anything period. Bynum & LM were both solid players but nowhere the players Wade & Bosh are. The comparison is almost laughable lol. Wade and Bosh are both HOF players. NOBODY outside of Kobe is going to a HOF on that Lakers team (including Gasol). Until Lebron wins a ring without Wade he can't be compared to Kobe IMO. When Shaq left LA people said, "Kobe has to win a ring without Shaq to be considered great". So he won a ring 2. Hold Lebron to the same standard. He certainly has more talent now than Kobe had both championship runs. I disagree. Ray Allen can definitely rattle off five or six 3's and give you 23-27pts on any given night. He's still one of the best shooters in the league. Wade is still a top 3 shooting guard today. Bosh averaged 16pts & 7reb on 53% shooting last yr. Lebron is surrounded by 2 superstars and one of the best shooters in the league. If Lebron retired today, he'd be considerd top 10. But let's not get carried away
