Pope removes two cardinals, allegedly due to their ultra conservative views

Mathloom · Dec 18, 2013

Pope Francis on Monday removed two American-born cardinals — including former La Crosse Bishop Raymond Burke — from the Vatican's Congregation for Bishops, meaning the ultraconservative prelate will lose his influential role in the appointment of bishops in the United States.

Burke and retired Philadelphia Cardinal Justin Rigali were among more than a dozen members of the Vatican old guard who were removed from the 18-member congregation on Monday.

Among those appointed was Washington, D.C., Cardinal Donald Wuerl. While conservative, Wuerl is seen as a bridge-builder and less dogmatic than Burke, who has promoted the denial of communion to pro-abortion rights Catholic politicians and in recent interviews appeared to question the new pope's plans to reshape the Vatican bureaucracy known as the curia.

Monday's appointments are seen as the key to securing Francis' legacy.

"He is saying that you don't need to be a conservative to become a bishop," said Alberto Melloni, the director of the John XXIII Foundation for Religious Studies in Bologna, Italy, a liberal Catholic research institute. "He wants good bishops, regardless of how conservative or liberal they are."

Burke, a Wisconsin native popular with American conservatives, served as bishop of La Crosse from 1994 to 2003 and joined the Roman Curia in 2008. He serves as president of the Apostolic Signatura, the Vatican's highest court, and was appointed to the Congregation for Bishops by Pope Benedict XVI in 2009.
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Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/news/google...urke-b99165146z1-236134851.html#ixzz2nohDiyAJ
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

I would appreciate if some of the more knowledgeable posters could elaborate on how significant or insignificant this is - from the article's description of the way things unfolded, it seems this was a rebuke to American ultra conservatism. Could this make the right wing even less appealing since they seem to be losing their status as the more religious faction?

I've recently said that American conservatives will ultimately have to choose between the church and their economic beliefs, and this (along with the Pope's recent comments re Capitalism) seems to be a step closer to forcing such a decision IMO.

JuanValdez · Dec 18, 2013

I can't answer your question. But, it is not my impression that American Catholicism, generally, is all that conservative on the spectrum of the worldwide Catholic Church. These 2 guys, I don't know.

H-TownBBall · Dec 18, 2013

Mathloom said: ↑

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/news/google...urke-b99165146z1-236134851.html#ixzz2nohDiyAJ
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

I would appreciate if some of the more knowledgeable posters could elaborate on how significant or insignificant this is - from the article's description of the way things unfolded, it seems this was a rebuke to American ultra conservatism. Could this make the right wing even less appealing since they seem to be losing their status as the more religious faction?

I've recently said that American conservatives will ultimately have to choose between the church and their economic beliefs, and this (along with the Pope's recent comments re Capitalism) seems to be a step closer to forcing such a decision IMO.
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American conservatives are generally Protestant, not Catholic. They study the same book but generally have a different set of core values. Catholics are more encouraged to improve society by helping the needy. Protestants are more encouraged to improve themselves and spread the value of hard work. I guess you could call it a macro vs micro strategy.

glynch · Dec 19, 2013

Mathloom said: ↑

I've recently said that American conservatives will ultimately have to choose between the church and their economic beliefs, and this (along with the Pope's recent comments re Capitalism) seems to be a step closer to forcing such a decision IMO.
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I doubt this will happen. However, it is good to see the issue raised by those of us raised Catholic before the right wingers took over the Catholic Church culminating with the practically Nazi Pope and his predecessor. We remember the previous Catholic social doctrine that was very anti-thetical to the trickle down economics pushed by libertarians and conservative Catholics like Vince Ryan. It was not in line with the Southern Baptists and the Southern Evangelicals who seem quite content with trickle down.

smr6 · Dec 19, 2013

They probably believed in ghosts and vampires too much.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=248188

SexyButIgnorant · Dec 19, 2013

Eh, American Catholics already vote liberal. This has nothing to do with America, world doesn't revolve around us! Pope just wants good cardinals as the article states. He enlisted a conservative cardinal in place of one of the ultra-conservative. Ultra liberals and ultra conservatives are usually punks.

Mathloom · Jan 4, 2014

glynch said: ↑

I doubt this will happen. However, it is good to see the issue raised by those of us raised Catholic before the right wingers took over the Catholic Church culminating with the practically Nazi Pope and his predecessor. We remember the previous Catholic social doctrine that was very anti-thetical to the trickle down economics pushed by libertarians and conservative Catholics like Vince Ryan. It was not in line with the Southern Baptists and the Southern Evangelicals who seem quite content with trickle down.
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Seems like it's being discussed, though on a relatively small scale:

If anyone wonders whether Pope Francis has irritated wealthy conservatives with his courage and idealism, the latest outburst from Kenneth Langone left little doubt. Sounding both aggressive and whiny, the billionaire investor warned that he and his overprivileged friends might withhold their millions from church and charity unless the pontiff stops preaching against the excesses and cruelty of unleashed capitalism.

According to Langone, such criticism from the Holy See could ultimately hurt the sensitive feelings of the rich so badly that they become “incapable of feeling compassion for the poor.” He also said rich donors are already losing their enthusiasm for the restoration of St. Patrick’s Cathedral in Manhattan — a very specific threat that he mentioned directly to Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York.

Langone is not only a leading fundraiser for church projects but a generous donor to hospitals, universities and cancer charities (often for programs and buildings named after him, in the style of today’s self-promoting philanthropists). Among the super-rich, he has many friends and associates who may share his excitable temperament.

While his ultimatum seems senseless — would a person of true faith stiff the church and the poor? — it may well be sincere. And Langone spends freely to promote his political and economic views, in the company of the Koch brothers and other Republican plutocrats.
Still, a pope brave enough to face down the mafia over his financial reform of the murky Vatican Bank shouldn’t be much fazed by the likes of Langone.

Yet Langone has reason to worry that the Holy Father is in fact asking hard questions about people like him. Indeed, he could serve as a living symbol of the gross and growing economic inequality that disfigures the American system and threatens democracy.

As a leader of the New York Stock Exchange, he was largely responsible for the scandalous overpayment of his friend Richard...
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More at link: http://www.salon.com/2014/01/04/rich_catholics_vs_the_pope_partner/

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Pope removes two cardinals, allegedly due to their ultra conservative views

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