Obama shakes hands with Raul Castro at Mandela's funeral

What is the point of the embargo on Cuba anymore?

 

But, honestly, who cares? Did your grandparents hack into your accounts and start complaining about the handshake? President Obama shaking Raul Castro's hand is no more an endorsement of the latter's policies than:

John McCain shaking Muammar Gaddafi's hand

Spoiler

Richard Nixon shaking Mao's hand

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Bill Clinton meeting with Kim Jong-Il in Pyongyang

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Franklin Roosevelt aligning with Joseph Stalin during WWII

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Et.- freaking -al.

This is why nobody takes you seriously. You ignore all nuance when it comes to complicated situations and keep drinking more and more Kool-Aid, hoping you'll eventually win the pissing contest that is American politics.

 

There are people who went through the Cuban missile Crisis that are still alive.

Other than an emotional reason there really isn't a practical reason. We've managed to become China's b**** with no one batting an eye.

 

That's not even fair to grandparents. Both my parents and my in-laws are both staunch stereotypical Fox News watching conservatives. If Fox News is in a tizzy about something, they're in a that same tizzy. Even they said this criticism is the one of the dumbest things they've ever heard.

 

I'm with you! I'd absolutely love to visit the place, and the food would just be a gigantic bonus!

 

Just go down to Mexico and book a trip though a travel agency. or Canada or any other country. I haven't gone, but a number of friends from Houston have gone.

 

It's simple economic protectionism. Importing Cuban sugar would hurt the bottom line of US sugar producers, corn farmers (who produce high fructose corn syrup), and I would imagine it wouldn't help US tourism. Havana's a major city for tourism, and it's likely cheaper to fly to Cuba and visit there than it is to go to a similar American city in Florida or something.

Plus, as REEKO mentioned, there's definitely still bad blood over them missile crisis, and the Cuban expat community definitely wouldn't support it (and I completely understand why; I just don't think their needs trump everyone else's).

I'd like to point out that, we not only trade with China, but also with freakin' VIETNAM! The same communist regime we fought during the '60s and '70s we now have defense deals and (I believe) trade agreements with. Notice how the world has ended.

This, FV Santiago, is what I mean by the Cold War being over. There's definitely still a struggle for hegemony between the US and Russia, we can see it in Syria and even more in the Ukraine, but the days of Russia being strongly allied with every communist country are over. The Russian sphere of influence is much smaller than it used to be, and establishing normalized relations with Cuba isn't in anyway going to help Putin's Russia. The days of the a black and white struggle between capitalism and communism are over, the free market one (even "communist" countries like China and Vietnam have a relatively free market and coca-cola and blue jeans).

Plus, I'd argue opening up trade would actually spur more dissension and reform. Give Cubans a taste of capitalism, and they'll eat it right up (of course, there's also the risk that Havana becomes a new Cancun and turns into one big resort, but that's a separate discussion).

You can say we shouldn't do it because of human rights abuses, but when has that stopped us before? I can think of one instance where we cut trade with a country for human rights issues, and that was apartheid era South Africa. As bad as Cuba is, I don't think it's at that level. Plus, we have no qualms about doing business with the Saudis.

 

I'm trying to go there for study abroad. I had a HS Spanish teacher who went there once (legally) to work on her dissertation, and a second time (illegally) for her honeymoon. She showed us pictures, it's a lovely place. But of course, it's no utopia.

You can go through Canada or Mexico. If the US govt catches you, they'll send you a letter asking you to pay a fine. If that's the case, you can get a lawyer (sometimes a pro-bono one) to challenge it for you, and 9 times out of 10 they'll drop the case (apparently, the travel restriction is in violation of another US law, and would be struck down in court, so they don't push it).

It's a pretty safe city. Definitely safer than Mexico. One of the (few) benefits of an authoritarian state is that crime's not that bad.

 

The whole point of the Cuban Missile crisis was that we could not afford to have a Russian missile base so close to the US mainland. There isn't one and never will be one. And in a world of Mutually Assure Destruction and economic cooperation, who cares but a bunch of old men that supported Batista, a ruthless dictator.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/365941/damage-handshake-otto-j-reich

 

Obama is such an amateur. That much is clear.

 

"U.S. prestige and honor"

Last week on another political discussion site I saw a list of maybe 20 covert operations that so far pale this it would be like an ant on an elephants ass for squandering "prestige" I wish I could find it. I can pull up Operation Phoenix, Nicaraguan Contras, the Shah's overthrow of Iran, Chilean coup d'état, Argentine coup d'état, Turkey 1980, etc. I'm surprised Castro would shake an American's hand, except he wants our money.

But the point of Mandela is that peace is found through discourse. That's why most of the leaders of the world were there. It's absolutely the right forum for steps in that direction. Cuba is hardly a boogeyman.

 

Damn I didn't know Americans aren't allowed to vacation in Cuba lol

I'm so used to people around me in Canada vacationing there every couple of months

 

I'll bite.

How is this handshake 1. Meaningful and 2. any more "validating" than any encounter that US presidents have had with Kim Jong-Il, Mao Zedong, Augusto Pinochet, Joseph Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev, Leonid Brezhnev, et. al.

Hint: it isn't. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you went out of your way to criticize President Obama!

 

HE does have a sense of humor after all.

 

Anyone ever been to Cuba? My goodness it's terrible there. Amazing for tourists, but go deeper and you really see how badly the situation is.

I got sick at a restaurant I was recommended, and I had to stay in the(well reviewed) hotel the whole week. They had rations on toilet paper, which I had to wait for, couldn't believe it! But hey, it's actually really beautiful, and you get a good sense of nostalgia. Everything there is as if it were stuck in the 50s, lol.

But I do have family in Cuba, food rationing is terrible, living conditions worse. As for the handshake, doesn't mean anything.

 

Way overdue to normalize relations, resume trade, and let nature take it's course. Cuba would be a democracy within five years.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2013/12/12/bill-oreilly-president-obama-shaking-dictators-hand

 

I have been to Cuba, and the government has plastered everything with anti-American slogans.

 

That's not too surprising. After all, American politicians have been running against "Castro" for decades. What's "good for the goose" being good for the gander. In my opinion, we'd see that change in Cuba if we normalized relations. They'd want to attract American tourists and American investment. I doubt that there were slogans everywhere attacking the PM of Canada! ;-)-