Jeremy Lin out 2 weeks with grade one knee sprain (UPDATE: Will return vs. Portland)

Didn't we lose that game in OT?

 

Not that I expect you LOFs to recall anything beyond your worshipping of Lin, nor do I expect you to actually respond to my post with anything resembling acceptance that torocan conveniently "forgets" sample size when the situation fits him...

Here's one for you.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=7351691&postcount=201

Look, I'm fine with fans being biased. I'm biased. But at least I admit my bias and think more of the Rockets than other fans would. Just admit you guys put on rose colored glasses when you watch Lin and we can all have nice discussions.

 

http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2013/12/10/ZOOM0002MOV-3071932

 

Ah, good ole hypothesis. When facts fail, go for making up stuff and pass it off as facts.

I remember the good ole days when hypothesis are vetted through scientific process and only accepted if the Null Hypothesis is rejected. In this case, the Null Hypothesis would be "Beverley is a good defender." And so far hasn't been rejected.

But I can understand. If it can get rejected in the future, why not make the statement today when it hasn't happened yet? Isn't that how things suppose to work.

Here's a hypothesis from me then. "Lin Sucks. I don't have to prove that I'm correct. But you have to prove me wrong. And you cannot use stats from this season because there's not enough of a sample size." Yeah, that's really the definition of a "reasonable" argument.

 

Beverley IS a good defender, but his defense is not as IMPACTFUL as last year's defense because he can't go all out anymore like he could last year playing 18 minutes. Also, PG defense is the least impactful of all five positions IMO.

 

You forgot the first step here, and that is observation. You need to observe your objective first, and then combine with your 'logical knowledge' before coming up with a hypothesis. Or else it's just your personal thoughts or interests.

If YOU make a hypothesis in a discussion, and you can't even come up with your own support, that is your logical reasoning, and why would me or other people bother to prove your point?

 

I wonder how many hours you spent reading torocan's posts to find that one... I'd laugh but honestly at this point it's kind of sad. That's really the best thing you can find? A single-point rebuttal? To the argument that Toney Douglas is was better than Jeremy Lin in the first two weeks of the season? That's why he's quoting the stat. Because people were saying Douglas was better than Lin defensively as justification for him playing such heavy minutes (at Lin's expense).

It took me 2 minutes to look at torocan's post, look at the thread, and then laugh.

If that's the best you can do then you really need to take a step back and think about how much winning an internet argument is worth to you, because right now it's costing you your credibility.

By the way, no one is saying that torocan isn't a Lin fan. We all know he is. He's said it repeatedly. But you're so busy assassinating the content of his character that you don't bother to read the content of his posts.

As for everyone else, I'd recommending reading posts without looking at the names of the posters first (it's an old tip someone far wiser than I gave me once when it comes to reading internet message boards - read the post, then if you think it makes sense read the name - otherwise just ignore it and move on). It's a good way to see who is discussing in good faith and who is just being a douchewad to someone else for no good reason. You'd be surprised how often so-called "real Rockets fans" show up as the latter.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

 

A sample size statement was unnecessary for that post. The posts being made were stating that Lin was giving up more points than Douglas.

The data didn't support that so far.

I made no assertions other than the data showed that it was not true to date. You don't need to supply a sample size to show that visual observation was not supported by the actual points scored as it was the actual points being scored.

If you say "Lin had 20 points scored on him", and the data shows it was actually 10 points, I don't need to cite a sample size because you're simply factually wrong.

No, "Lin sucks" is not a proper hypothesis. It is being presented as a statement without qualification, definition, or reasoning. You have presented a meaningless opinion.

All I have to do is challenge the logical basis for the hypothesis. For example...

Upon what logical basis do you assert the hypothesis? And based upon what parameters?
"Sucks" is not an objective or scientific term. What do you define as "sucks"? What is the quantifiable standard that you use to define "sucks"? Is it a relative standard versus standard league play? Against all stars? Against Lebron James? Against AAU players? Against you in your back yard?

Are you arguing that he is a poor defender? What is your historical data?
Are you arguing that he is a poor shooter? What is your historical data?
Are you arguing that he is a poor ball handler? What is your historical data?
Are you arguing that he will become a worse player than he is today? What is your logical reasoning?
Are you arguing that he is a worse player than before? What is your historical data? What is your logical reasoning?

There is a difference between Hyperbolic statements without basis, and an actual hypothesis that is reasoned and logically consistent.

For example, here is an example of a Hypothesis

Hypothesis A : It is likely that Kobe will become a worse player post Achilles surgery since there is no precedent for a player returning from Achilles surgery at 100%.

I can support this by pointing to a medical study of people recovering from Achilles surgery.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/how-an-achilles-tear-affects-nba-players-or-why-kobe-472944871

Hypothesis B : It is possible that Kobe will return and resume his career at 100%. While most players do not recover 100% from Achilles surgery, Kobe's exceptional work ethic and advances in medical recovery give him as good a chance as anyone.

This is supported by the fact that of the players who have had successful recoveries, they cite their drive and work ethic as being central to their ability to resume their careers.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/how-an-achilles-tear-affects-nba-players-or-why-kobe-472944871

There is a difference between saying something that is logically supported, or supported to a degree by data and just saying something without basis OR logical consistency.

One is the basis of discussion and debate, the other is meaningless opinion and trolling.

I know the difference between the two... do you?

 

Torocan, I think you need to come to terms...

Some of the older veterans here will never give up on the hate. Not all, mind you.

Some of the veterans refuse to see that a majority of the ridiculously stupid Lin posts are trolls. The trolls are on both sides, and one or two comments injected here an there into threads will ignite 40 pages of bashing. Then some veterans (NOT ALL OF THEM) keep on bringing it up over and over without ever realizing there are sensible Lin supporters who are not in denial of his limitations. His potential is there and his attitude is there. And they keep bringing the hate no matter what.

So in your posts you try your best to stay unbiased, even though you clearly are a Lin supporter (nothing wrong with that), and present facts as much as possible will always find an audience among veterans and trolls alike that choose to continue to nitpick or outright ignore your findings. Keep up with your informative posts, but I think you should stop wasting time on people who won't change their minds on Lin. The trolls will simply choose to ignore your arguments, or just argue with you just to ARGUE. They will find any excuse to downplay him. There are a lot of veteran posters here that have changed their tune on Lin, and some that haven't but are cautious about what they say about Lin. Those are posters your better off having a discussion with even if their views on him aren't as favorable as yours. Thank-you for your posts, but dont waste your time on trolls. Some of the veterans on here refuse to change their minds, so don't bother arguing. They won't change yours either. Some veterans actually discuss and go back and forth with you, and it is more informative.

 

clutchfans is strange. lin isn't bad. he's better than bev. he's not a top 5 pg, but you dont need a top 5 pg to win a championship.

his production improved since the second half of last year and he's doing great coming off the bench while playing starter minutes.

bev fits in with harden opening the game. lin has learned to play with harden, but it isn't optimal for everyone. by staggering lin and bev's minutes with harden, it gives jeremy the opportunity to have the ball in his hands when harden goes out.

he's not an all star, but he is a very productive player. teams often over pay players. lin could get 6-8 million from other teams. are people really complaining about maybe overpaying 1 million dollars? mo williams get around 8 million.

 

Why don't you just stick to the Rockets and not about 'other fans' ...

 

No, Lin never has a chance to hold the ball. Harden pay 40 minutes a game. The 8 minutes with Harden, Lin plays SG, which unlike Harden, gives Beverley control the ball.

 

I have watching the NBA since 1972 and played competitive bball. Parker shot a fG% of ,481.His ave.is currently .522. Thats a difference of 4.1% in Fg % (Efficiency). This effect size is small, and may not even be statistically significant. I am currently looking into computing the probability of this difference happening by chance. It would be good if all clutch fans read Fooled by Randomness by Niseem Taleb. We are all fooled by randomness especially when we speak about one or two instances. I should not have responded to the person who brought up two games to discuss and used stats to prove his point. I work with stats and the larger the sample the more accurate the conclusion.(Bev is an exceptional defender) The Europeans call the Americans the small sample
people. No professor that I studied under would accept a sample size of under 30. My mentor would not accept a sample size of less than 200 when I was doing my Dissertation.Again, I was wrong making statements about the two games in question, but so were the others. The difference may not have been due to Beverly but to random factors. The best instance I can think of of the top of my head is what happened to Tebow.(Don't bite my head off for comparing this to Tebows situation. It off the top of my head and I use it as an to illustrate what I mean).

 

Nobody wins in an argument. Someone's ego is always bruised and if you can't have an open mind to at least agree to disagree, then there will always be some negativity. That is the nature of an argument.

 

how does lin drive the ball without the ball in his hands?

 

Look at all my posts. You will be surprised. Your statements are to broad.

 

There is never a sole reason. Almost all events have multiple determinants.

 

it doesn't matter who's guarding parker. that's why he's tony parker. the heat played ridiculous defense in the finals, and parker still had game saving moments.

 

This and this again. Why the hell would one be upset by Lin's fans creating a website for their idol? That guy has serious issues if that upsets him and he finds the need to come post vitriol here just to get back at so called "LOF's"

 

lin could fit in as a starter, but the point is his productivity goes up when he comes off of the bench because his usage rate rises.