[ClutchFans] Podcast: Taking a look at Omer Asik Trade Possibilities

I agree Jones is intriguing. I personally love to see the young guys develop. Something about watching them grow to reach a potential we're all uncertain of.

Let's think about it this way.....if DM wants a 3rd all star player. That means either Lin, Parsons, or Jones is going to lose their spot on the roster or get moved to the bench. Who do you think gets replaced? What star PG, SF, or PF do you think is available in the next 2 year window?

 

I am not too sure we need that third star player. Look at how much Bosh and Wade had to defer to James to make it all work. We are getting off topic here, but that's the thing that pissed me off irt to Asik: that he would rather start for some perennial loser rather than have a chance to go deep into the playoffs and perhaps earn one or more rings. Smh...

I guess having Howard and Asik manning the paint 48 minutes was just too good to be true. That would have been tremendous in the playoffs.

 

I think that's where the fundamental question would be then. IF DM isn't looking to acquire a third star than I think you're approach is spot on. Flip Asik to fill much needed holes (backup 5 and defensive wing). IF DM is looking to add the third star, then I don't think filling those holes will be as important as flipping Asik for the best asset available to parlay later for that 3rd star.

Keeping Asik as a backup would have been killer if he'd been okay with it. But it does seem like overkill if you can trade him for a decent backup 5 and a defensive perimeter specialist. I just think if you do trade him for those pieces you'll get something like 75 cents on dollar. If you go for BPA or highest pick you'll get a little more value.

 

Tjones was a pick. Gee. Tjones is better than Milsap with huge upside. So you are proposing trade away asik + tjones for Milsap and a pick?

 

Go back a read my last few posts and you'll understand better what I'm saying. If you think TJ is better than millsap, great he could theoretically return quite a haul then too. But i think the more relevant questuon is if you think he's a lock to be an all star and to become one soon. If you think TJ can become an all star by next year then I'd think DM would keep him. If DM doesn't think he can become an all star and do so in the next 3 year window, he might get traded if it means acquiring the right pieces to obtain a 3rd star. This is all assumin of course DM is still in the mindset of acquiring a third star for this team.

I think the same discussion could be had with regard to Parsons too btw. So nothing against TJ....it's just theory of economics in the closed market of the NBA.

 

Hmm, are you calling PP the 3rd star??? Which third star in this league are we going to nib?

 

Ok I didn't actually understand the meaning of your post in its entirety. What did my post have to do with PP?

 

Ok, forget pp, which appeared in your last post. I am just wondering who might we get as a the 3rd star - a legit all star stud? I am assume we will not trade away harden and Howard because they the other two stars.

 

Ah okay that was in my first post which was meant only to say DM would trade away solid starters if his intent was to acquire the assets necessary get a star player.

My thought is 1) if DM is looking for a legit 3rd star his options are to either see if one of our players grows into an all star in the window of opportunity we have with Howard (Lin, parsons, jones) or acquire one in trade/FA (Love, LMA, etc). If its the latter he'll need to gain the assets to package together for such a player while remaining financially flexible enough to have the cap space to sign such a player. Is there a star like that available now....no but as with Harden you never know when an opportunity comes up.

 

Guys there are words buzzing around that Morey is targeting Ersan but hes having a hard time convincing the bucks but

I would love for him to come here. THe reason why he sucks right now compared to last year is because last year he was playing with penetration guards that would kick it out to him (ex. Monte Ellis) but now hes not doing so well. We have Harden, Lin penetrating slicing the defense. Ersan will spread the floor for Dwight and run the high pick and roll with Harden. I feel that T.Jones will diminish if he comes off the bench, so we put Ersan on the bench with Jeremy. Now we have a

starting 5
Chandler
Harden
Jones
Howard
bev

backup 5
Lin
Ersan
casspi
garcia
greg smith/brook

 

Urine Pee Pee. Let everything stay the way it is right now< and see what DM has up his

 

Either Jones gets us a third star or we keep Jones and go that route. I like our team as it is right now, Jones can even play spare minutes at the 5.

Most likely I feel it will be Illysova. I think we will be able to get Okafor for cheap if he is bought out or in the off-season.

I think that line-up will be a Championship team at least once over the next 5 seasons. Pick up Okafor for cheap with that line-up.

That second unit can go long with Casspi at the 3 and Garcia at the 2 or small with 2 point guards. We could also go big at times with Okafor at the 4...sparingly.

The thing I really like about T Jones is with more experience he has the perfect body and amount of athleticism go guard Durant and Lebron who plays the 4 often.

Bev/Lin/Brooks/Cannan
Harden/Garcia/Brewer
Parsons/Casspi
Jones/Ilysova/Dmo
Howard/Okafor/Smith

 

Rockets might be wary of trading Jones after letting Lin slip through their fingers. As has already been said, it's unlikely that Asik brings back a player that is a significant upgrade over our starting 5 unless Morey decides to go all in and dump multiple assets at once.

BTW, Jones is averaging almost two blocks a game since becoming a starter. The kid is good and getting better, and I hope they keep him.

 

Jones has looked very good defensively next to Dwight. No doubt about that.

However....if you could acquire an opportunity to play the lottery in this year's draft by including him in a trade for Millsap you have to do that simply because of the value of that pick.

That pick may become the determining factor in our ability to get Kevin Love or Melo on this team at the deadline. And if not...well it's a lottery pick.

At least one team (and likely more than one) is going to make a decisive move to tank at the trading deadline. Some teams are attempting to tank and are still in the playoff picture (Phoenix) because other teams are playing poorly (Nets and Knicks) that have no incentive to tank. And some teams may get to the deadline and realize the futility of trying to get in the playoffs (Knicks/Nets/Twolves) and will be looking to clear out their cap for a lottery pick.

The huge problem with trading for an unprotected pick, especially a pick from a team like the Nets, is the teams are so bad in the East that the last place team, the Bucks is only 5 games out of the playoff chase. That's why I think a deal with Atlanta can be achieved eventually. Atlanta wants to go to the playoffs. They know the reality is those Nets pick swaps could very easily become non-lottery picks.

Same thing with Cleveland. They are sitting on the Charlotte pick plus their own pick. They're trying to make the playoffs. The Charlotte pick can be no higher than 11 anyways. And if Cleveland is going to make a push for the playoffs then their pick loses value. It's not unreasonable to expect they should be willing to give up those 2 picks for Asik.

Same thing with Boston, another team trying to make the playoffs. They have a whole litany of picks and pick swaps with the Nets from the KG deal.

IF Morey negotiates with the Nets he could wind up getting the Celtics or Hawks to the table to get what he wants. Heck Morey may be able to get Deron Williams for an Asik/Lin package right now, catching the Nets desperate.

 

I dont want to trade Jones because he's playing good and Dwight is liking everything he does on the court.

 

We probably value TJ differently because I would not let him go for Milsap mainly due to salary and age. Millsap makes $8M per year and is 7 yrs older. Lets look at their per 36 stats :

Millsap..

18.2 ppg
8.7 rbs
1.2 blks
.516 2 ptrs
.405 2 ptrs

TJ...

15.3 pts
10.4 rbs
2.4 blks
.538% 2 ptrs
.406 3 ptrs

Millsap only puts in 3 more pts per game but that is easily offset by TJ's rebounding and blocked shots. All of this without having to run ANY plays for TJ while Milssap is one of the primary scorer/producer in his team. Meaning, we don't have to change anything with what the team is doing for TJ to produce while Millsap, we don't know.

In addition, we already know how TJ fits on our team, we don't know that with Paul. I also feel the Millsap has reached his peak while TJ still has a lot of time to improve.

Because of his current production and salary, to me, it doesn't make sense to trade him or Chandler because all signs point to both these players being just as productive as borderline all stars minus the price tag.

GM's could be placing a high value for TJ. The question is, why would Morey trade him for an 'unknown' top 5 pick (if teams are willing to give that to us)?

Morey's strength is not just getting good players but also keeping a good handle on salary which gives him a lot of flexibility for signing free agents or trade. We have never seen Morey in action when he has a team that is almost on a win now mode so it is hard to predict what moves he will be making.

 

These are valid points and I tend to feel the same way about TJ and something about developing our own guys is appealing to me. Some things to consider though is that Millsap's performance is what it is right now and it's true there isn't much more upside. But he's also been playing for some time as one of the main options on the teams he plays for. I have to think at least a portion of TJ's success is that fact that he's seen by opposing teams as the 4th or 5th offensive threat on the court. I don't think teams have started to really scout him yet.....though if he continues to perform they certainly might. If he continues his performance through the end of the season after teams have had a chance to dissect his game then I might be more prepared to say his numbers are truly reflective of his talent. That said though, if you put Millsap between Howard, Parsons, and Harden you could argue his offensive and defensive production could dramatically improve as well. But you're right....that's all an unknown and a risk to try out.

I also agree with you on not knowing how to predict DM now that he has this team. Which is why I'm saying I wouldn't discount the possibility of making that kind of move. You just never know....

 

Asik, Beverly for E.Turner, Hawes..

Move Harden to the point, who can keep the playmaker role (Oscar Robinson).. Have Turner guard the best 1 or 2 on the floor..

Harden/Brooks
Turner/Lin
Parsons/Garcia
Jones/Casspi
Howard/Hawes

 

+1

I am thinking the all-in option would be our preference. Even then, I would rather send some combination of Brooks, Dmo, Canaan, Brewer, Smith, and even Garcia + picks rather than include Jones.

 

...along with Asik.