So Harden just scored 37 pts on almost 60% shooting and adding 8 assists. I don`t know how many points he scored in the 4th, but he had several buckets when we really needed them just by imposing his will on the other team. This is not something George is able to do - his points come by the flow of the game, he can`t take over games like that. And Harden just did it for the second game in a row. And his defensive deficiencies are way overblown. He looks terrible on a handful of plays each game, I give you that. But as the analysis by aelliot and Aleron pretty much proves, that Harden wasn`t responsible for most of Utah´s points. People are just watching him waiting to do a mistake, and then assume he is responsible for every bad thing. Harden needs to try harder on defense - everyone knows that. But he is not that major negative that people make him out to be. And I am pretty sure that most GMs would still take him over George, just because his elite offensive skill is more valuable than Georges great overall game.
Hell yea imah defend Harden after I had to watch K-Mart in my city Just like I'll defend you if someone calls you an LOF... WTF...???? And I criticize Harden for bringing Howard to Houston.... Lmao...!!!
Man you know I have the Jazz too. Very disappointing loss but I tell people the Any Given Game Rule applies here. They suck but they can still win games in the NBA because they are professional ballers. Pimpn I already know and you are indeed correct on the labeling thing..hahhahaah Fans going to be fans, its human nature to rant when things are not going they way we expect it to go.
Everyone has their own opinions on how the game should be played. And I do fault Harden for that late turnover he had because that hurted the team... But Bev letting that Rookie go off like that is inexcusable because he's SPECIFICALLY out there for his defense. And Howard letting Utah have a free pass at the basket like a layup drill is inexcusable as well because he's supposed to be a big time defender. They pulled that same crap in the 76ers game too, but people blame Lin for his defense.
Bwhahahahaha he some would say it was Parson who convinced Howard to come here pimpn.. I didn't like Martin's defensive effort either and once the NBA put in that rule about players jumping into the defender and getting a foul> Martin wasn't effective on offense anymore. Like I said bro I am big time Harden fan just like you, I just want him to play better defense.
Hell yeah Bev deserves to get blasted, dude suppose to be lock down defender. That is why he was inserted into the starting line-up correct.
CLose this thread. Any objective person who has basketball knowledge would recognize that George is the better player. The only case Haren has on George is in offense and with George's improving offense that gap is not very big. However, George is way way ahead of Haren on D. They are extreme opposites. George is elite on D while Harden is a total liability and a negative on D. Until Harden plays at least respectable average D, they should not be in the same sentence
No offense, but this is good example of what gets people riled up. Yes, we know Harden has defensive issues. But it's posts like this that make it sound like he in no way plays any defense at all. Check the earlier posts in this thread. His "man" wasn't scoring everything on him and him alone. NBA defense is about SO much more than on the ball defending. Putting the blame all on one dude just because his position title indicates his opponent went off on him is amazingly niave. When this type of logic is applied to Lin you're guaranteed to get a label (and racist might be one of them). Again, no one here is praising Harden's defense. But the extremes of the knee jerk, what have you done for me lately culture is flat out mind boggling. I started watching the NBA in the 80s, mainly drawn in because of MJ. Having watched every game he played, I can only imagine how some people would have attacked him in his first few seasons if internet forums were around then. disclaimer: I'm not saying Harden is in any way, shape or form as good as MJ was at that time. It's simply a comparison of perceived criticism for criticisms sake.
I fully understand team defense and rotations and it is obviously ALL not on Harden but his lack of effort gives opponents the idea that they can attack him at will. I'll paraphrase what I wrote in another thread. I like Harden and really want him to succeed but I get frustrated with his lack of defense knowing that it is purely because of a lack of effort and heart and not due to physical limitations. If harden could play even average defense, this team would be so so much better. Most concerning thing is that Harden actually has the physical tools to be an average defender at worst. It's not like he is a KMart and physically limited. What Harden lacks is effort, heart and courage on the defensive end. The loner he strays away from this aspect of the game, the tougher it will be for him to regain respectability on the defensive end
Now that I agree with 100%. I think he needs to be taught, intimidated or put in his place by a strong coach. Unfortunately my personal opinion is that we don't have one.
This. Harden reminds me of the Gifted kid in school who never studies because they know they can coast by on Talent. Is Harden tremendously gifted offensively? Yes. Is Harden more physically gifted than MOST NBA Players? Yes. Does Harden have the ability to read in game situations well? Yes. So where is the disconnect between Harden's Offensive and Defensive game? It's about building good habits. Just like school is more about good study habits than being a genius, the same applies to Defense in basketball. Good defensive habits and effort count FAR more than physical gifts. Sure, if you don't have amazing gifts like Tony Allen or Andre Iguodala you're not going to be an Elite Defender. However, even WITH those talents Allen and Iguodala would be terrible defenders if they did not even TRY to defend. I don't think anyone is asking that Harden be a lock down defender, or even a good defender. All I want to see is Basic effort. Bad feet doesn't excuse not putting your hand in someone's face. Nor does it excuse not shuffling your feet AT ALL when someone is going to drive on you. And it certainly doesn't excuse drifting 15 feet away from your man and not even KNOWING where they are as they do a back cut. If Harden can run the floor in a transition basket, can get up in the air for a dunk, and drive into a pack of defenders while powering through on a Eurostep, then he can certainly SHUFFLE 1 foot to the left to cut off or funnel a drive. Yes, Harden put up 37 points. That's fantastic. However, would he have *needed* to put up 37 points if he played his defensive role better? Would the Jazz have put up 36 points in the first Quarter and put us in a 13 point hole? Would we have been struggling to stay in the game for the last 3 quarters? And would McHale have had to keep him playing for 43 minutes? If Harden had tried on defense consistently last night and we still lost, it would have sucked but we wouldn't be focusing on Harden, would we? Harden's a Max player. It's not too much to ask that he plays hard on both sides of the floor.
Signature worthy. He has the natural gifts for sure. But does he have the work ethic and desire to turn the weak parts of his game into strengths? Time will tell. Let's let him get 100% healthy and give him a few seasons.
Well, Indiana plays great defense.. They defend at every position, but they played an elite team last night for the first time this year and got beat with George putting on a "Melo Type" performance... Straight jacking up shota and not interested in getting his teammates involved... But that's fine for Indiana because that's what they want George to do. George's teammates don't care about scoring _ they care about playing lock down defense and they never complain about the "ball getting sticky"... They know their job is to D-up and George's teammates aren't worried about being offensive heroes... And as someone has shown _ Harden wasn't the one giving up all those points by Utah last night so his defense wasn't the issue and he had Hayward on lock in the 4th quarter. So what is it you're expecting him to do homie...??? Basketball is a TEAM sport... And in MY OPINION _ I don't worry about guys like Harden's (and even Lin's) defense because they can light up the score board and help their other teammates who can't create their own shots and aren't great offensive players score _ it's those other dudes jobs to be lock down defenders and those dudes aren't doing their jobs...
Harden put up 37 points and 8 assists - that's at least 53 points (at least, that's not counting assisted 3's or assists that led to FT's) that he's substantially responsible for - can you do the math to show how he's substantially responsible for a similar number on the other side that negates this? Some people have tried in other threads and it doesn't really add up. Basically you're saying that around half of all points scored by the Jazz were on Harden - I find this statement so laughably dubious that it really says a lot more about the predispositions of the folks making it than it does about teh game itself.
Nowhere did I say HALF the points were on Harden. However, it should be obvious that if Harden plays better defense that it's highly likely that the Jazz score LESS than they did. Whether that's 33, or 30, or 27... we don't know. However, considering that we lost by 6 points it would only take a few buckets over the course of 48 minutes to change the outcome of the game. And no, bad defense does not Negate his offensive contributions. However, if certainly LESSENS the value of those contributions. That's common sense. If I score 37 and let the opponent get 5 more points, I would have been the same as scoring 32 and defending those 5 points. Harden's poor defense HURTS his potential impact on the floor. It's that simple. Harden would be BETTER if he defended. It's not more complicated than that.
People read this. This is why aelliott is one of the best posters on the bbs. Knowledge and facts to back up what he says. For all you people that like to argue with nothing to stand on, please take note. aelliott, must spread some around first. Well done sir.
We're not talking about being 5 points better - it's more like +10 or 20 with a beast offensive game like Harden had last night. If you're a net +20 - that's superstar level production and I'm happy with the tradeoff. Frankly it's on the rest of the Rockets supporting cast when Harden is beasting offensively to maybe get a few stops.
