ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Knicks 11/14/2013

That's not very fair at all. Beverley has his strengths and serves his role.

The problem is Beverley's shooting issues are really hurting both his efficiency AND the efficiency of the team when he's on the floor.

Beverley's 3 point shot was about a lot more than his ability to put the ball in the bucket. A reliable 3 point shot means offenses have to play him honestly. This gives everyone more room to operate on the floor.

Similarly, his lack of driving ability means that opposing defenses don't need to plan a PnR defense for anyone except Harden.

He's still an effective defender, but without his offense he's only a threat on one side of the court and opposing defenses key into that.

Until he fixes that shot, he makes it harder for Harden or Lin to operate, which makes it harder on everyone. That's not his fault. He's just in a slump right now (we hope).

It's the same problem that Parsons is having. The difference is Parsons is also a very good driver and slasher so can compensate.

 

Lin also a lot more minutes than Bev since the start of the season. Bev's stats are marred by the slow start he had coming back from injury. I watch almost every single game and replays on the ones I miss. I like the stats Lin puts up but you are really blinded by not looking at the whole picture if you think putting Lin in 40+ minutes a game will be good for him.

 

They lost the game because they could not hit FT and 3pts(except for Lin). 9/15 for Lin and 6/26 for the rest on 3pts was the major reason why they lost. 6/26 is just putrid.

 

people shouldn't be expecting any offense out of Beverly outside hitting open jumpers and 3's. thats not his game.

 

Bev is really good weapon for defense even he didn't shoot well.

 

Sigh. THIS isn't a blow towards Lin. A lot of people did horrible that night, but that doesn't mean leave Lin in when he's gassed and not producing anymore on offense after the second half. His stats could've looked a lot better if he wasn't left in to play for so long.

 

So even though the rest of the team is doing horrible, we should leave Lin in when he's tired and not producing anymore on the floor and further allow the bleeding to occur?

Did you watch the whole game rather than just the overall stats?

Lin did amazing the first half. Bev kept us in the game during the second half and kept the lead until Lin came back from rest (barely 2 minutes) and the points just dropped in minutes.

 

Beverley is VERY important to this team.

Folks say that he plays with the starters only because he fits with Harden. I would argue that an additional benefit he brings is that he also fits with Lin.

When Beverley was out of the first few games of the season due to injury, the backup guard to both Harden and Lin was Aaron Brooks. And while I have very fond memories of Brooks' past as a Rockets, this version of him today is a pale shadow.

Beverley's presence essentially provides both Harden and Lin with resting time. He also assists them BOTH in covering the perimeter. He may not be an offensive machine, and he may not be "de facto starter material", but he is a vital component of this team, and gives the Rockets a deep guard rotation.

Some of us may not be happy with how the Lin - Beverley starter / 6th man situation played out, but that does not mean we should rag on Beverley.

 

Yes, the spurs, totally forgot about them! I would say the Heat have a pretty strong team chemistry as well. everyone knows their roles and support each other. Forgot the Pacers too, strong team.

 

Lin is averaging 34 min vs 29 for Bev. 5 min different is enough to more than double the offensive output? Lin is shooting 52% FG 46% 3pt vs Bev 36% FG 24% 3pt is the major different in their stats, minutes play and FGA have very little to do with it. If the skew in their current offensive performance is not enough for people to think Lin should play over Bev(if you have to pick one) then I guess in those people mind Lin will never be picked over Bev.

 

You do realize that Lin put up 9 of the Rockets' 34 points in the 4th quarter last night? And 11 of his 21 points in the 2nd half?

And Beverley DID play the last 3:15 of the game?

 

My thoughts:

Harden was very good last night. He is a vastly better player when he is fresh.

Lin was also good. He didn't put up the statline that he did the previous two games, but he fit in better. He only had 2 turnovers and 5 assists. Every game that he puts up 20 points only will add confidence that he will be a very important part of the the Rockets offense this year.

As far as Beverley goes, at worse he will be a key bench player. He is a very good on the ball defender and can cover SG's in a pinch without struggling. His long term value above being a back up will depend on the development of his three point shot. He struggled in the past with, but the Rockets scouts saw a difference last year and it carried over into the NBA last year. Lets hope he figures it out again.

 

You cannot blame someone for a loss who played 50 minutes, contributed 34 points and 12 assists. This is not fair!

 

Oh I agree with you that McHale did a terrible job with managing the players minutes in that game, and Lin was clearly exhausted toward the end of the game. My point is if you manage the players minute properly where they aren't spend toward the end of the game then there is no scenario where you should take Lin out in favor of Bev. You can have them both in or just Lin, but not the other way around. Bev is not a better option than Lin starting or closing games right now. That could change in the future but not right now.

 

I agree. Bev makes big contributions to the team. I love his rebounding and stuff that isn't in the stat sheet like poking a loose ball to a team mate, positioning to prevent others from rebounding, etc. The Lin/Bev combination has better ball movement and team play then the Bev/Harden Lin/Harden combo. I think the PG situation is great on the Rockets team and the get Rondo thread is absurd. Rondo is one of the worst team mates in the NBA and Lin and Bev are both productive guards and excellent team mates.

 

I'm just acknowledging every facet of his game, and not just the goods.

I have to go to work so I am not going to explain every little detail right now.

I'll just say I love Jeremy Lin and he's practically the reason I'm on the Rockets team.

I just hate how you aren't allowed critique Jeremy's negatives to some people here, but people like Beverly are up for cheap shots all day.

 

I would not "blame" Lin for the Sixers loss, the Rockets lose that game without Lin. He was for a long time the only Rockets player that could score.

However, to say "50 minutes, contributed 34 points and 12 assists." is not the full story, he also had 8 turnovers and his primary defensive assignment went off.

Not sure why everyone seems to either conclude "Lin is awesome" is "Lin sucks" when really it isn't that simple.

 

You can if they a) turned it over a TO and/or B) played selfish ball hog and/or C) had rudy gay level of chucking to reach 34 points.

But in Lin's case, he really tried to be a team player so can't blame him

 

Exactly. But yet after every game, we have a debate on Lin when in reality, he's been the only bright spot really. This board is worse after a loss. Sky is falling every time after a loss. We're 10 games in. Let's give them a month or so more before everybody wants to fire the coach. Or play Lin less minutes. Etc.

 

I don't have a problem with people thinking Lin needs to improve on certain things or that Bev is important to the team. I agree on both assessments, and I really don't like to compare the two as it's not fair to Bev due to how well Lin is playing right now, but at the same time if people cannot give Lin the nod over Bev right now then I don't see how Lin can win in those people mind.